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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#61 | |||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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Quote:
yeah I do know what I am talking about. I personally spoke to Abbott when he was in Geelong last year and I discussed certain policies with him, on national television . He squirmed like a worm but admitted it under his breath that he would sell off anything he could, including Medibank. He is a slippery liar, worse than any other I had met. He signed the documents stopping funding to GMH. I don't care if he was the preamble to the policy or not .. did he personally sign off on the cuts? yes he did. and that is fact, not opinion. |
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#62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,050
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Not by the unions that presided over the closure of the car industry, those entitlements came long before. If you're going to praise this union for the work done long before by other unions in the past, then you must also criticise it for the actions of other unions (eg. HSU).
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#63 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 1,718
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I'm guessing you don't really understand how a political party works. The PM does t just walk into a room, spell out what he wants and get it rubber stamped. It has to go through several party rooms and then to cabinet. Have you been paying attention to the paid parental leave issue...? He's had to back down twice already and make cuts to it, no doubt many more cuts will be made before it comes on stream. Because, and this may be a surprise to you, the PM doesnt just get what he wants. To blame one party for an industry closing down is silly, it makes no sense as it started closing under one government and finished under another...! |
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#64 | |||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,084
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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#65 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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Some people seem to have short memories. |
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#66 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,811
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#67 | ||
Isn't it obvious?
![]() Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in a world of idiots
Posts: 5,383
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Pmsl
So people actually think there is a diff between lib and lab at the top? Really? Yet nothing ever changes no matter who gets in Ever notice that? Wakey wakey....... Lol No no, keep going on about unions ruining everything in ths country. Its rivetting.
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08 Strike G6E T. 10 Ergo G6E Sept 75 XB Falcon in mushroom beige, 3 on the tree 200cid for sale, offers in the teens |
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#68 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,071
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I've seen the EBAs, and remember to sign off on an EBA it requires TWO PARTIES TO AGREE. Management are just as well to blame for those conditions as are the unions, as they signed off on them. We always love pointing the finger at the blokes at the bottom, what about the people who decide what the company does? Such as Management? OK wages and conditions push from unions, management team signed off on those, and what about poor decisions such as designing diesel Territory and then cancelling it, and then bringing it back years later? Or the AU Falcon? Poor dealership network Poor quality control (BA) You can't blame that on unions, I like how the people who actually RUN THE COMPANY get a stay of execution and can go onto ruin other companies but the guy on the bottom who assembles the things is getting lynched. I guess if you wear a suit and tie you can get away with murder but if you wear high viz, watch out. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 15-01-2015 at 01:21 PM. |
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#69 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,050
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Quote:
What have the car industry workers unions achieved? As mentioned above, some awesome pay rises and working conditions. Good for them. But unsustainable and not overly productive nevertheless, so its a bit rich for them to paint themselves as victims. Quote:
There are plenty of reasons why Ford have failed, which you listed. But the common element across the car industry has been labour cost. As it is in the aviation industry (eg. Qantas), as it is food production (eg. SPC) and others. Compare their wages/conditions against a relevant basic award. It isn't just the hourly rate, its the total package (entitlements, redundancy provisions, etc). And the total package was way more than others in the same industry but not backed by big unions. If you can get the good money while it lasts, good luck to you. But it was always going to end even if people were still buying the product. You cant reward at above the rate of inflation indefinitely. |
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#70 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
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The Australian car manufacturing industry never could cut it right from the first FX Holden all the way to now
If we never had tariffs we would never had a car industry ever and that's a fact. It was all about building a nation and the spin off from having it all were great for many other things. I believe what has been done is just short sighted and only a fool or a traitor would do such a thing to there nation. All the ALP and liberals do is sell us out year after year to there boss the new world big brother order. When our dollar is worth 40c to the US say ? then we will be in a pickle and the Asian currency value will rise, as it does when one gets more powerful and this is on the cards. No one is going to invest in Australia, as why would anyone do that when you have governments like we have that give no support. it's insane ! |
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#71 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: S.A.
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
Things change, mostly for the better.
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The true danger only occurs when you take a potentially dangerous piece of machinery and place it in the hands of the most unpredictable species on the planet. Human behaviour, as history has catalogued, cannot account for what any persons actions may be, especially concerning their love of the motor vehicle. http://www.fireservicecollege.ac.uk ![]() |
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#72 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,216
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The leadership Australia has had from both sides of the political fence is poor and Industry policy has become politicised. Time will tell if Australia can make the grade to the next level of high tech industry without the base auto manufacturing provided. Bill.
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AUII XR6 VCT ute 20 years and still going strong! |
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#73 | |||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
Posts: 12,354
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Tweedledum = Labor And somewhere in that sandwich are the greens and independents |
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#74 | |||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Quote:
cheer's, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#75 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
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The difference I have seen over the years is both parties have been moving further and further to the right. Labor now basically holds the same position as the Liberals did in the late 70's to mid 80's and the Liberals under Abbott have now adopted the far right wing Republican agenda from the states. They are basically the Australian Tea Party elected under the banner of being a Liberal government.
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#76 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
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Quote:
Its a discussion that is basically ignored in the political/economic debate, but as a TAFE teacher I can tell you we are leaving whole generations of kids with no future beyond working at KFC as the jobs they would be very good at are being off shored. The social cost to our society of this is enormous. Dan |
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#77 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,050
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#78 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: S.A.
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
Now the British automotive industry is huge, but it has not come about from government subsidies. The Australian car manufacturers & Unions had plenty of notice and compensation from various State & Federal governments over the past 30 years. Instead of knuckling down & working for a common goal they stuck their heads in the troth & plodded along, while others took the long hard road and came out the other side with huge export industries. Yes governments a required to invest in nation building, but they must not throw good money at bad industry. The Australian car industry was bad, very bad. Just look at their sales record, compare it to overseas manufacturers. We have/had and industry that was run into the ground by poor management, poor unions & lazy governments. Lazy because they didn't want to rock the boat, they kept throwing money at management and unions appease the voter. It's sad & I'm angry to see both Ford & Holden go but if an industry can't sell new cars at competitive prices and in large numbers, they have to be treated like any other business. Otherwise; give my business handouts as well! I'm just glad that I have helped both Ford & Holden, by buying new cars.
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The true danger only occurs when you take a potentially dangerous piece of machinery and place it in the hands of the most unpredictable species on the planet. Human behaviour, as history has catalogued, cannot account for what any persons actions may be, especially concerning their love of the motor vehicle. http://www.fireservicecollege.ac.uk ![]() |
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#79 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,673
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Nice idea, Do you think we will export any products to Asia ? Britain is close to Europe and to North America. In the end we are slaves to the tyrany of distance. Ford ultimately confirmed it made no business sense to export from Australia. |
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#80 | ||
Shenanigans..............
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Footscrazy
Posts: 12,354
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After reading alot of this, a change to the definition of treason sounds like an idea.
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#81 | |||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Quote:
Did Ford USA ever implement a creditable global export plan for the Australian built Falcon? "Citing multiple pressures including high local costs and an unfavourable dollar, Toyota’s global president, Akio Toyoda, said Toyota would close its manufacturing operations in 2017" Australian Financial Reveiw http://www.afr.com/p/national/toyota...bo8AyVOBx3361M "The decline in the numbers of cars made in Australia is caused by a combination of factors but chief among them is the high Australian dollar" ABC New's http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-1...tralia/4886462 "Holden said in a statement that the perfect storm of a high Australian dollar, high cost of production and a comparatively small and fragmented market contributed to the decision to pull out of the country" Gizmodo http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/12/ho...manufacturing/ cheer's, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#82 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,216
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Quote:
The British car industry didn't disappear, the major concerns were bought by multinationals and they have also had Honda and Nissan plants as well. Australian Unions are not as destructive as the British car industry unions were nonetheless there will always be those that blame just unions for the outcomes we have now. I do agree with your sentiments as a whole and am also disappointed with the end as it is panning out, not just for Falcon/Commodore but for manufacturing as a whole. cheers Bill.
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AUII XR6 VCT ute 20 years and still going strong! |
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#83 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,216
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Quote:
I recently spent 3 years at TAFE studying Engineering and saw this first hand and witnessed the gutting of some TAFE institutions. cheers Bill.
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AUII XR6 VCT ute 20 years and still going strong! |
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#84 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: S.A.
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
The point I was making is that if our industry concentrated on an export market, and succeeded, they're business would be secured with government funding when required. However, the industry leaders got lazy, or stupid, and did not bother. The people handing out tax dollars needed to chose viable investments, ones that ensured long term benefits. The car industry has had 30 years to build an export market, instead they built a excuse & whinge market - we're too small, we're too far, competition is too hard, we don't get enough subsidies. How did the Germans and Japanese do it after the destruction of WWII? How did the Koreans do it during the 80's & 90's? They all started the same way we did, but they worked and planned better. Distance is an excuse.
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The true danger only occurs when you take a potentially dangerous piece of machinery and place it in the hands of the most unpredictable species on the planet. Human behaviour, as history has catalogued, cannot account for what any persons actions may be, especially concerning their love of the motor vehicle. http://www.fireservicecollege.ac.uk ![]() |
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#85 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,673
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VW, Mercedes, BMW, are German Company's. Several of them now have plants in China, and they also export into the European Union and around the world (and some also have plants in the US). Land Rover is a premium brand VERY heavily subsidised by the UK government and owned by an Indian conglomerate. Some of those you quote have sufficient home grown volume ( of world wide product ) to be able to also have developed export programs to other parts of the world. How do you propose that a foreign owned company that has old plants in a high cost environment like Australia exports into Asia, Europe and North America ( with high logistical costs ) in high volume whilst they compete with low cost producers that make the same product ( that is not indigenous ) ? Well ? |
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#86 | |||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
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#87 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,198
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To be honest we were fortunate to have unique Aussie cars.
Ford could have simply imported the Torino or Maverick here. GM the Malibu or Chevelle. |
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#88 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
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Quote:
The German and Danish unions are far removed from them fools as they have to have a brain in their head to get the job to become a union man, not like hear you just need a great big fat gut and at least related to the communist party mob some where to get in the door. |
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#89 | ||
Solution Was Boost 4?, 6 & 8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 23,624
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Politics and insults = kill thread.
closed...
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AUTOTECH TUNED EDELEBROCK CHARGED 2017 GT Mustang Plenty of RWKW |
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