hydrogen fuel cell car on sale 2015

[mik]

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...ogen_420-420x0

[Mr Brooksy]

Good news for the US. Even if they do produce Hydrogen powered cars, how long would it take to retro fit fuel stations? And how do they store it?! Same questions still remain, except that the production price of the cars have dropped considerably! 1Million to 50000 US!

[chevypower]

nice! But according to BTTF2, we should have flying cars in 2015.

[aussie muscle]

i think the fuel stations will be the same as LPG, just stick a tank on site. i think hydrogen is a better idea than plug in electric, esp since most grid electricity is coal.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by mik

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...ogen_420-420x0

It is nice to see predictions made in the media occasionally become true. Toyota will commence sale of the Mirai in the US this year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai#United_States

[cheap]

The usual barriers will come into play, range, cost, depreciation, maintenance, convenience and existing technology (the fossil fuel industry) will not exactly greet this with open arms.

Remind me, what problem is this new car trying to solve?

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by cheap

Remind me, what problem is this new car trying to solve?

The move to an alternative source of fuel which is abundant, cheap and has less environmental impact than crude oil based fuels.

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by cheap

The usual barriers will come into play, range, cost, depreciation, maintenance, convenience and existing technology (the fossil fuel industry) will not exactly greet this with open arms.

Remind me, what problem is this new car trying to solve?

It would be a big help in busy cities, cars giving off water instead of all the pollutants that currently come out of them.

In Australia the downside would be the electricity used to produce the hydrogen would all come from fossil fuels.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

The move to an alternative source of fuel which is abundant, cheap and has less environmental impact than crude oil based fuels.

100% fossil fuel cars arguably meet two of those 3 criteria (abundant + cheap) and year upon year they have less environmental impact

Hybrids arguably meets one those criteria

Full electric (Tesla) arguably meets one of those criteria

So where does hydrogen car fit into the criteria?

At unit price of >$50,000 the hydrogen car certainly isn't cheap. Remind me how is the hydrogen made?

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by cheap

100% fossil fuel cars arguably meet two of those 3 criteria (abundant + cheap) and year upon year they have less environmental impact

Hybrids arguably meets one those criteria

Full electric (Tesla) arguably meets one of those criteria

So where does hydrogen car fit into the criteria?

At unit price of >$50,000 the hydrogen car certainly isn't cheap. Remind me how is the hydrogen made?

Fossil fuels are not abundant.

All current alternatives to fossil fuels have their shortcomings. It does not mean we should stop trying.

The first horseless carriages were also not cheap. I suspect you own a car which implies it is now more accessible than it once was. Any new technology will be expensive at first.

[GASWAGON]

Glad we only have to wait the rest of this year and not until 2016.

Lets get this hydrogen show on the road...........ASAP!!!!!!!!!!

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Fossil fuels are not abundant.

All current alternatives to fossil fuels have their shortcomings. It does not mean we should stop trying.

The first horseless carriages were also not cheap. I suspect you own a car which implies it is now more accessible than it once was. Any new technology will be expensive at first.

With many many many years (probably +200 years) supply of fossil fuels, fossil fuel probably falls into the near abundant criteria. Sure they will run out, but not soon.

The horse had a lot of short comings so the comparison is not valid.

I'm just trying to understand what problem the hydrogen car is trying to solve, because non of these new technologies is a silver bullet. And as a consumer all I see is a glut of new technology, most of which will be in the wrecking yard sooner rather than later.

So apart from hydrogen being the latest and greatest, what will it do dramatically different to revolutionise the world, or is it the Kim Kardashian of automotives promising something but we just don't know what.

[brennan.]

Good, the future of motoring is looking ok. Hydrogen has always been the answer, internal combustion engines can already run on the stuff so why would we throw away 100+ years of engine development and go backwards? Ring Nissan and ask how long it takes for the Leaf to fully charge (without using quick charge). Battery power just won't cut it, the human race very rarely takes a backward step and I don't think the masses will allow it to in this case. You might get the fanatical tree huggists buying electric and hybrid but these cars are just a gap filler, a quick "fix" while the great minds of our time create the new motoring world.

When petrol was discovered I bet people said "that'll never work, where do we fill up? It's impossible" look where we are now.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by cheap

With many many many years (probably +200 years) supply of fossil fuels, fossil fuel probably falls into the near abundant criteria. Sure they will run out, but not soon.

A finite source cannot be abundant. I agree there is more fossil fuel to be found but the stuff which has not been removed from the ground is harder to access. Which means even if there is another 200+ years of it, it will become more expensive. Hence the need to look at alternatives sooner rather than later is important.

Originally Posted by cheap

The horse had a lot of short comings so the comparison is not valid.

I disagree. The horse was used by mankind for centuries and it was fit for the intended purpose. But I was talking about the first cars, not horses.

Originally Posted by cheap

I'm just trying to understand what problem the hydrogen car is trying to solve,

Read this post again:
http://fordforums.com.au/showpost.ph...99&postcount=7

because non of these new technologies is a silver bullet. And as a consumer all I see is a glut of new technology, most of which will be in the wrecking yard sooner rather than later.

Everything ends up at the wrecking yard, both good and bad. It is a disposable society.

So apart from hydrogen being the latest and greatest, what will it do dramatically different to revolutionise the world, or is it the Kim Kardashian of automotives promising something but we just don't know what.

Like all technologies there is a lot of trial and error. Look at the proposed flying machines from the late 19th century and you will see how many designs were tried before success was finally achieved. Thankfully people did not have your attitude at that time.

[cheap]

But the hydrogen car doesn't solve problems!

The hydrogen car simply makes people think it solves a problem, in reality it suffers that same issues with manufacture, similar/worse issues with refuelling, similar issues with environmental impact, contributes to traffic gridlock and will have the same issues with car parking. This "new" car simply brings with it a bunch of old school consequential issues. I'm sure some people will be impressed with water coming out of an exhaust pipe (you might be one of those people) but that is just a novelty.

Here is a hint, we need some "real" advances in transportation, we've been driving cars for +100 years and nothing has really changed, arguably it is worse that ever before. 100 years ago people wrote letters and days/weeks later the letter arrived, today people press a keyboard and the message is instant.

[brennan.]

Originally Posted by cheap

Here is a hint, we need some "real" advances in transportation, we've been driving cars for +100 years and nothing has really changed, arguably it is worse that ever before. 100 years ago people wrote letters and days/weeks later the letter arrived, today people press a keyboard and the message is instant.

You should write to Toyota with this issue you raise. Tell them they're wasting their time and that they should be working on human teleportation.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by brennan.

You should write to Toyota with this issue you raise. Tell them they're wasting their time and that they should be working on human teleportation.

Probably not Toyota, but hopefully someone somewhere is working on it.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by cheap

But the hydrogen car doesn't solve problems!

Neither do hybrid cars. Lithium-ion, lithium polymer etc batteries create more problems then they solve. But it is a start. Compare where the industry is now to the 1970s when the first fuel crisis occurred and you can see technology has come a long way.



Alternative modes of propulsion still have a long way to go before they become viable alternatives to what the majority of people currently drive.