VFACTs August 2015 - Page 2

vztrt · 09-09-2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

price pressure in that segment is so extreme it is possible that nobody is making any money. high sales figures aren't the end of the story especially if they are supported by marketing incentives

Are we sure their not losing money on the base model...while a titanium would bring a few dollars? Seeing as higher spec cars don't cost that much more to build but command a much better sale price.

csv8 · 09-09-2015, 10:33 AM

Focus Tiatnium is $32k+orc. the Tech Pack should be standard on the Titanium....Cruze SRiV is $28k drive away..The Titanium should be about $30k drive away with Tech Pack with negotiations drive away at Cruze price....

Bossxr8 · 09-09-2015, 03:38 PM

We all know higher spec models bring more profit. So maybe why they ditched the ambiente, as it was losing money, and kept the profitable ones?

NX74205 · 09-09-2015, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Focus Tiatnium is $32k+orc. the Tech Pack should be standard on the Titanium....Cruze SRiV is $28k drive away..The Titanium should be about $30k drive away with Tech Pack with negotiations drive away at Cruze price....

Why? Focus Titanium is priced in line with the Golf Highline, Octavia Elegance and the Mazda 3 SP25.

And in any event, if the Focus is losing money, dropping the price is the last thing Ford should do. They should instead make it better and more attractive to buyers, which is what they've done with the LZ.

csv8 · 09-09-2015, 09:57 PM

Ok how many Titanium's have been sold??

SSVPom · 09-09-2015, 10:29 PM

Depressing results for Ford, but there are plenty of new models on the way. As a comparison in the UK in July, the top selling car was the Fiesta (8,500 sold) and 2nd place the Focus (7,000 sold)

NX74205 · 10-09-2015, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Ok how many Titanium's have been sold??

Who cares? This isn't about sales numbers, it's about profits, and where Ford sees itself in 5 years time. Ford are never going to be number 1 in Australia ever again, that much is clear, and what is also clear is that they are not aiming to top the sales charts by selling boring appliances.

Ford are currently in transition, repositioning itself to be more upmarket than the appliance manufacturers like Toyota and Hyundai; to be leaders in technology, dynamics and refinement in this price segment. Going forward, it is apparent (to me) that Ford aren't targeting Toyota, Hyundai or even Holden, but VW and Skoda.

vztrt · 10-09-2015, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

We all know higher spec models bring more profit. So maybe why they ditched the ambiente, as it was losing money, and kept the profitable ones?

I think very few people were buying them.....it was more a fleet car...which Ford won't chase anymore.

Joe5619 · 10-09-2015, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

Who cares? This isn't about sales numbers, it's about profits, and where Ford sees itself in 5 years time. Ford are never going to be number 1 in Australia ever again, that much is clear, and what is also clear is that they are not aiming to top the sales charts by selling boring appliances.

Ford are currently in transition, repositioning itself to be more upmarket than the appliance manufacturers like Toyota and Hyundai; to be leaders in technology, dynamics and refinement in this price segment. Going forward, it is apparent (to me) that Ford aren't targeting Toyota, Hyundai or even Holden, but VW and Skoda.

That is why in almost every add I see from Ford they compare themself to Toyota. That would seem at olds are your comments that "Ford aren't targeting Toyota".

vztrt · 10-09-2015, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is why in almost every add I see from Ford they compare themself to Toyota. That would seem at olds are your comments that "Ford aren't targeting Toyota".

New ranger ad doesn't. Which was a breath of fresh air.

1TUFFUTE · 10-09-2015, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is why in almost every add I see from Ford they compare themself to Toyota. That would seem at olds are your comments that "Ford aren't targeting Toyota".

Personally I see a huge difference between selling a car for profit....and the way they sell the cars.
Both teams go about it in different ways.
Comparing their superior product in advertising then inadvertently lines up with selling them at a higher cost.
Seems rather simple to me ;)

NX74205 · 11-09-2015, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is why in almost every add I see from Ford they compare themself to Toyota. That would seem at olds are your comments that "Ford aren't targeting Toyota".

Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by That chick in the Ford ad

"Sure, you might find a cheaper truck, or a bigger seller, but you won't find a better one."

Quote:

Originally Posted by That chick in the Ford ad

"Who says biggest selling means best?"

What that says to me is that Ford will not sell as many as Toyota (or Mazda), they won't be as cheap as a Toyota, but they'll have the better product. That's why I don't think they see themselves as competitors to Toyota, they see themselves as producing better, more premium products than Toyota.

Ford are currently in the transition phase from being the volume selling Toyota rival that it once was, to a more premium brand synonymous with refinement and dynamics. But it needs to build its reputation before it can come out with ads like the self explanatory, "it's a Golf" style ads. This, I think, is the reason for the comparison ads, to encourage people to make the comparison themselves to see who really has the better product, regardless of price.

(I'd also like to think these ads are payback for those 'Wide-body Camry' ads that inferred that Falcons are dinosaurs, and those Barry Humphries Avalon ads suggesting that an Avalon is "classier" than a Falcon).

For whatever reason, Toyota is the default choice for many people, because they make competent, A to B cars. But that's all they are. You get what you pay for. When was the last time a Toyota won a car review comparison? As far as the light, small and medium sized car segments go, Yaris, Corolla and Camry lags a long, long way behind the likes of the Fiesta/Polo/2, Focus/Golf/3 and Mondeo/Passat/6 - the Ford, VW and Mazda are the class leaders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

New ranger ad doesn't. Which was a breath of fresh air.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with those Toyota comparison ads. So long as they can walk the talk and build the better product, which they have, I see no reason why they shouldn't advertise as to the fact that their cars are better than a named rival.

eb2fairmont · 11-09-2015, 05:16 AM

Falcon, ute & territory still make 50% of volume.

If I was a dealer I'd be worried.

csv8 · 11-09-2015, 05:46 AM

Ford cannt seriously compare their cars to Audi, BMW or MB ?? Not same build quality. Good cars , yes but not in that league,,,

Mulga · 11-09-2015, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

Really?

What that says to me is that Ford will not sell as many as Toyota (or Mazda), they won't be as cheap as a Toyota, but they'll have the better product. That's why I don't think they see themselves as competitors to Toyota, they see themselves as producing better, more premium products than Toyota.

Ford are currently in the transition phase from being the volume selling Toyota rival that it once was, to a more premium brand synonymous with refinement and dynamics. But it needs to build its reputation before it can come out with ads like the self explanatory, "it's a Golf" style ads. This, I think, is the reason for the comparison ads, to encourage people to make the comparison themselves to see who really has the better product, regardless of price.

(I'd also like to think these ads are payback for those 'Wide-body Camry' ads that inferred that Falcons are dinosaurs, and those Barry Humphries Avalon ads suggesting that an Avalon is "classier" than a Falcon).

For whatever reason, Toyota is the default choice for many people, because they make competent, A to B cars. But that's all they are. You get what you pay for. When was the last time a Toyota won a car review comparison? As far as the light, small and medium sized car segments go, Yaris, Corolla and Camry lags a long, long way behind the likes of the Fiesta/Polo/2, Focus/Golf/3 and Mondeo/Passat/6 - the Ford, VW and Mazda are the class leaders.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with those Toyota comparison ads. So long as they can walk the talk and build the better product, which they have, I see no reason why they shouldn't advertise as to the fact that their cars are better than a named rival.

Maybe you would do a better job running Ford, cause I'm not sure Ford knows what direction it wants to head. I think you're giving Ford more credit than they deserve.

vztrt · 11-09-2015, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

Falcon, ute & territory still make 50% of volume.

If I was a dealer I'd be worried.

Holden has the same problem. But the rest of their range is rubbish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Ford cannt seriously compare their cars to Audi, BMW or MB ?? Not same build quality. Good cars , yes but not in that league,,,

Since when are they comparing themselves to the euro's (who were building poor quality cars about 10 years ago (except Audi))? Toyota and Mazda command a premium this is were Ford want to be slotting in.

Joe5619 · 11-09-2015, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

Really?

What that says to me is that Ford will not sell as many as Toyota (or Mazda), they won't be as cheap as a Toyota, but they'll have the better product. That's why I don't think they see themselves as competitors to Toyota, they see themselves as producing better, more premium products than Toyota.

Ford are currently in the transition phase from being the volume selling Toyota rival that it once was, to a more premium brand synonymous with refinement and dynamics. But it needs to build its reputation before it can come out with ads like the self explanatory, "it's a Golf" style ads. This, I think, is the reason for the comparison ads, to encourage people to make the comparison themselves to see who really has the better product, regardless of price.

(I'd also like to think these ads are payback for those 'Wide-body Camry' ads that inferred that Falcons are dinosaurs, and those Barry Humphries Avalon ads suggesting that an Avalon is "classier" than a Falcon).

For whatever reason, Toyota is the default choice for many people, because they make competent, A to B cars. But that's all they are. You get what you pay for. When was the last time a Toyota won a car review comparison? As far as the light, small and medium sized car segments go, Yaris, Corolla and Camry lags a long, long way behind the likes of the Fiesta/Polo/2, Focus/Golf/3 and Mondeo/Passat/6 - the Ford, VW and Mazda are the class leaders.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with those Toyota comparison ads. So long as they can walk the talk and build the better product, which they have, I see no reason why they shouldn't advertise as to the fact that their cars are better than a named rival.

Then how to you explain the Kuga & Mondeo ones???

Let’s be real, Ford have been & STILL are trying to be every bit a Toyota, Holden or Mazda.

The only think I agree with is they are in a rebuild phase. This will take Ford a generation before we see them at the top again. You don't regain market share over night. Everyone on here also needs to understand the bottom is not here yet...

200 odd Focus's is a complete joke. The Marketing Manager of Focus at Ford should quite ASAP... They can find more private buyers for Falcon than Focus!!

Bossxr8 · 11-09-2015, 03:57 PM

More likely they had no supply of run out models before the new Focus was relesed. But yes overall Focus numbers have been poor for a while now.

NX74205 · 12-09-2015, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Then how to you explain the Kuga & Mondeo ones???

What about them? Kuga is more powerful than a RAV4, and a Mondeo diesel has a lower ADR 81/02 fuel consumption figure than a Camry Hybrid. Both are legitimate comparisons based on fact.

And both Ford products are far superior to the Toyota.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

The only think I agree with is they are in a rebuild phase. This will take Ford a generation before we see them at the top again. You don't regain market share over night. Everyone on here also needs to understand the bottom is not here yet...

200 odd Focus's is a complete joke. The Marketing Manager of Focus at Ford should quite ASAP... They can find more private buyers for Falcon than Focus!!

I don't think Ford will ever regain top spot on the sales charts, nor do I think that is their ultimate goal. While I agree that the sales figures are somewhat disappointing, it isn't, and shouldn't be the whole focus as to whether Ford are doing well, or achieving the targets that it has set out to achieve.

Espec · 12-09-2015, 02:55 AM

Focus is not selling because of the gearbox problems a lot of people have been burnt and have been spreading the word about any one in the motoring world knows about it resale is crap and fords attitude doesnt help.It will take a lot of work to get the new focus sales increasing

csv8 · 12-09-2015, 08:19 AM

It seems strange that the gearbox problems wheren't picked up in development road testing?? Why did Ford let a faulty product go to market?? VW did the same!!!

Joe5619 · 12-09-2015, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

What about them? Kuga is more powerful than a RAV4, and a Mondeo diesel has a lower ADR 81/02 fuel consumption figure than a Camry Hybrid. Both are legitimate comparisons based on fact.

And both Ford products are far superior to the Toyota.

I don't think Ford will ever regain top spot on the sales charts, nor do I think that is their ultimate goal. While I agree that the sales figures are somewhat disappointing, it isn't, and shouldn't be the whole focus as to whether Ford are doing well, or achieving the targets that it has set out to achieve.

You're missing my point!!!!!!

I'm only commenting on your comment that was 'Ford are trying to move away from being like Toyota". If this is the case, why compare yourself to Toyota products if you’re trying distance yourself from them?

However, I somehow think you’re never going to get my point, so continue on!!

1TUFFUTE · 12-09-2015, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

You're missing my point!!!!!!

I'm only commenting on your comment that was 'Ford are trying to move away from being like Toyota". If this is the case, why compare yourself to Toyota products if you’re trying distance yourself from them?

However, I somehow think you’re never going to get my point, so continue on!!

As already mentioned.......comparing yourself to a car or car company in advertising is totally different then charging a premium because you KNOW your car is a better product.
Just because ford may target Toyota in adds, that doesn't mean they think they're competing directly, or wanting to be like that company....or a bazillions other things. Otherwise they'd be selling the fords for the same competative price and then comparing them in ads, saying ( look...you can buy a ford that's better for the same price)
But no, they target the big sellers, showing people their cars batter....(but you'll have to pay for it because we know our products better)
Imho

Joe5619 · 12-09-2015, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

As already mentioned.......comparing yourself to a car or car company in advertising is totally different then charging a premium because you KNOW your car is a better product.
Just because ford may target Toyota in adds, that doesn't mean they think they're competing directly, or wanting to be like that company....or a bazillions other things. Otherwise they'd be selling the fords for the same competative price and then comparing them in ads, saying ( look...you can buy a ford that's better for the same price)
But no, they target the big sellers, showing people their cars batter....(but you'll have to pay for it because we know our products better)
Imho