Wheel alignment - do you leave your car?

Strattos · 23-02-2016, 01:20 PM

G'day fellas,

Just curious how you go about trusting your car to workshops for wheel alignments or replacing tyres? Do you leave it with them or camp out at the workshop until it's done?

The reason I ask, my ute has a warm cam and heads, and while it's not the most powerful thing out there, due to the cam you can tell the motor's not stock.

I've got a couple of mates in my area who had a coupe of experiences where their modified cars have either been unnecessarily taken for joyrides, or at worst been witnessed being flogged around town after leaving them for wheel alignments etc.

Given you often drop cars off in the morning and it could be done any time during the day, it's almost impossible to get it done while you wait as you could be there all day.

What approach do you guys take?

Dauphin · 23-02-2016, 01:41 PM

The last time I specifically had an alignment done I was sitting in the waiting room with magazines/TV and could see the workshop, including my car being worked on. Took about half an hour to 45 mins from memory. Edit: They didn't test drive it.

**Giant Cranium** · 23-02-2016, 01:46 PM

I always take them to a place I trust. If you don't trust them go elsewhere

Itsme · 23-02-2016, 01:46 PM

Take it to bob Jane, they don't do test drives, matter of fact most tyre places don't do this practice any more.

Full_Monty · 23-02-2016, 02:05 PM

Find a different workshop if you don't trust them / know them. Build a relationship, let em know you cherish your car, and blood will be spilt if it is disrespected or damaged...lol

blackf6 · 23-02-2016, 02:07 PM

My wheel aligner tests around the block whilst I wait. I can hear the car. If they give it a squirt, it is no big deal to me. As long as I see it looking cool.

**GasoLane** · 23-02-2016, 02:16 PM

I get mine done at the same place every time. It's always taken for a drive before, to see what if handles like, and after to see if there's a difference.

If you've booked a time for it to be done I don't see why you would need to leave it with them all day.

Strattos · 23-02-2016, 02:24 PM

Thanks for all the ideas. Might make them give me a specific time so that I can be there the whole time and work from there in terms of developing the relationship.

Given I haven't really dealt with anyone for years, have to start from scratch in terms of finding a workshop I like and trust.

superyob · 23-02-2016, 02:28 PM

I watch my unremarkable beaten up ZD like a hawk!!!

Jess1992 · 23-02-2016, 02:30 PM

Some places have taken mine for a drive, and call me weird or it might be some fetish, but I love seeing my car being driven haha. It's kinda like those people that have a fetish for watching someone do their husband or wife lol

**MercurySilver** · 23-02-2016, 02:36 PM

My tire joint doesnt test drive, but i still wait and watch after a ford dealer de cided to but 30 plus kms on the car once when leaving it for a basic service...never again

Strattos · 23-02-2016, 02:37 PM

I haven't got a major problem with them driving it - it's how they drive it that concerns me.

Strattos · 23-02-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercurySilver

My tire joint doesnt test drive, but i still wait and watch after a ford dealer de cided to but 30 plus kms on the car once when leaving it for a basic service...never again

Exactly, that's the sort of stuff I'm worried about. Fair enough if they need to take it around the block, but it's actions like this that are a worry, as well as giving it a flogging.

Express · 23-02-2016, 02:51 PM

I always wait for tyre work including wheel alignments and haven’t been to anywhere that needed to test drive it.

If it's in for mechanical work then a test is a big possibility and that’s why my cars go to shops I know and if they do get a little excited what I don’t know won’t hurt me.

4vxc · 23-02-2016, 03:38 PM

I have done lots of alignments and can tell you if you don't test drive the car it's asking for trouble, everything might come up OK but I've had plenty of cars that will pull or the steering wheel might be
slightly out after the alignment.
There's many reasons that can happened but better to correct it before it goes back to the customer.
Superyob, good luck getting that zd setup correctly because 95% of people won't know where to start and will only toe it.
Not only don't they know how to do anything but toe adjustments but they don't want to know how to do anything else because unfortunately they don't give a rats

4vxc · 23-02-2016, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strattos

I haven't got a major problem with them driving it - it's how they drive it that concerns me.

My pet hate, if I ever saw a customers car being abused it was instant dismissal no matter what the car

mechanic · 23-02-2016, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4vxc

I have done lots of alignments and can tell you if you don't test drive the car it's asking for trouble, everything might come up OK but I've had plenty of cars that will pull or the steering wheel might be
slightly out after the alignment.
There's many reasons that can happened but better to correct it before it goes back to the customer.
Superyob, good luck getting that zd setup correctly because 95% of people won't know where to start and will only toe it.
Not only don't they know how to do anything but toe adjustments but they don't want to know how to do anything else because unfortunately they don't give a rats

That's so true.All very well setting the vehicle up to specs, but that has no real bearing on how it will drive on the road. Steering wheel could be off centre, may pull one way. Last thing you want is the customer coming back with his hair in a knot and possibly having to redo work when time is of the essence.
Test drives in the bigger workshops are normally done by the foreman or service manager anyway.

blackf6 · 23-02-2016, 04:11 PM

Every time I get my BF GT aligned, it takes them atleast 3 goes to get right! Rev bouncing burn outs and body damage is one thing. But a quick squirt round the block. Who cares.

Express · 23-02-2016, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4vxc

I have done lots of alignments and can tell you if you don't test drive the car it's asking for trouble, everything might come up OK but I've had plenty of cars that will pull or the steering wheel might be
slightly out after the alignment.
There's many reasons that can happened but better to correct it before it goes back to the customer.
Superyob, good luck getting that zd setup correctly because 95% of people won't know where to start and will only toe it.
Not only don't they know how to do anything but toe adjustments but they don't want to know how to do anything else because unfortunately they don't give a rats

With all the cars I've had I've never had any of these problems and if I thought there was the slightest thing wrong I'd be straight back.

It makes me wonder how often they get it wrong or who's incompetent or what type of shop you're talking about?

Falcon SXR8 · 23-02-2016, 04:34 PM

Place I take mine too usually test drives them after to double check but I just ask when its dropped off that I would prefer it not driven and they have no problem with that.

4vxc · 23-02-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express

With all the cars I've had I've never had any of these problems and if I thought there was the slightest thing wrong I'd be straight back.

It makes me wonder how often they get it wrong or who's incompetent or what type of shop you're talking about?

Hate to tell you but unless you can find a real front end specialist who takes pride in his work (very rare but they exist) it makes no difference where you go as guys doing wheel alignments tend to move often always looking for something better.

Biggest problem with alignments on most modern cars is only the toe is adjustable, hence the term "toe and go " and even when the toe is out a considerable amount the car can still track straight. So you can have both wheels toeing in or out and the car will run straight especially with the large amounts of castor cars have these days but as long as the steering wheel is straight and the car doesn't pull,generally to the left, the poor customer thinks it's a good alignment but it ain't necessarily so.
Typical scenario old mate brings his corolla in because it's pulling to the left.
Typical I don't give a crap operator technique
Check tyre pressures (hopefully)
Put heads on wheels,correctly with any luck
Goes through the basic setup on the screen (hopefully enters correct model info)
Runs sweep ect
Returns the steering wheel to center locks it up
Check screen display, if one side toe is red on the screen adjust tie rod until it goes into the green zone
Lock it up,off comes the heads, steering wheel clamp and away she goes.
Problem is the green zone on the screen is a pretty big adjustment area
So unless you have someone who will take the time to correctly align the car that's how it happens.
Worst thing is both cars will run straight and true but only one is going to get maximum tyre life and good handling
As for getting a xk-xf done seek a proper front end guy or a true suspension specialist who really knows how to set up a old Falcon properly, no toe and goes for these old girls

castellan · 23-02-2016, 05:32 PM

There are some dogs out their, I bought a brand new car and put new springs and shocks in myself then went to get the wheel alignment set to what I wanted, this moron came out to me tying to point out something was worn out

the car had 273KM on the clock

I just said, she will be right tiger!
After all is finished I said come and have a look at this boy, it's a brand new car dude

! the VS commodores had only just came out and I had mine ordered before they came out, so it was about 3 weeks at most that the VS was first realised.
He pointed out that he had 2 others working their to give him back him up, they both looked at me shaking their heads no we won't, I just said look I work for lowlifes just like him if not worse, that call themselves Builders that are always trying to f me over everyday and treat me like their n----- slave as well.

I was in a good mood and that was nothing to fight over, if I started swinging over that, I would be coming out swinging everyday, and I have been ripped off for thousands.
Not to mention my dad worked out in todays money he had been done for 13 million over his working life by such p---ks.
But hey that's just derelict people for ya playing their little games everyday, but one day their chooks may just turn into emu's and peck their dunny down and they will be on TV the poor bastards crying poor me, a Emu gave him a touch up.
The poor bastards just get so use to spinning s--t that it becomes a 24/7 thing and the thing is they don't care at all about anything, but to just sell you anything, like coil overs are big load of toss nowadays with people believing it's the only way to go B/S ! they would try to sell your grand mother coil overs

99AUXR · 23-02-2016, 05:42 PM

I do a load of wheel alignments as well. Always take car for a drive, hey, if customer wants to come with me fine but I would think he was abit weird ahahaha. Seat cover, floor mats drive it respectfully. I mean some cars are just loud. I mean allot of us leave our cars with tuners and they are doing what?

But honestly so many times as above you will do an alignment and it drives so poorly, Back in redo it a few times. Trust goes along way, also most cars with repairs all get driven depending on the repair of course.

Spurious · 23-02-2016, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jess1992

Some places have taken mine for a drive, and call me weird or it might be some fetish, but I love seeing my car being driven haha. It's kinda like those people that have a fetish for watching someone do their husband or wife lol

So....are you married by chance? LOL

Spurious · 23-02-2016, 06:17 PM

If your car is booked in, it shouldn't take that long. If the shop insists it'll be a while then just come back.
But a booking is a booking, IMO if they aren't ready to work on it when you arrive, or within a reasonable time frame of let's say 15 to 30 mins, then politely re-book or find another shop.
If you're worried that much about leaving your car, then make the time to hang around.

I have always done wheels aligns myself, it's not that hard really, & if I need to use a mechanic for anything I always give them strict instructions that the car is NOT to be test driven, 'cause dealing with the aftermath of an incident (which results in damage) is simply not worth the hassle.

If I do have to leave my car with a workshop, I tell them straight up that I CANNOT afford to be without the vehicle so there's absolutely no room for shenanigans, do not let any young guys behind the wheel, DO NOT at any point leave the keys in it (& leave it locked if parked out front) & I also make a point of stating that if I am happy with the work then they will see me again.
You can also tell them that your boss made you fit a GPS logger, so the vehicles movements & speed are constantly recorded.

If you just park the car, throw 'em the keys & say "See ya later", you just become another number to them!

You could always take the time to "suss" out the shop before you go there. Sit up the road for a short time & watch the way they conduct themselves.
If you pull up in the GT & 2 or 3 young guys come out to "oooooh" over it, a big red flag should go up.

Just make it very clear, "The car's my baby, smack it & I'll bury you" !!!

superyob · 23-02-2016, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4vxc

I have done lots of alignments and can tell you if you don't test drive the car it's asking for trouble, everything might come up OK but I've had plenty of cars that will pull or the steering wheel might be
slightly out after the alignment.
There's many reasons that can happened but better to correct it before it goes back to the customer.
Superyob, good luck getting that zd setup correctly because 95% of people won't know where to start and will only toe it.
Not only don't they know how to do anything but toe adjustments but they don't want to know how to do anything else because unfortunately they don't give a rats

Unfortunately 4vxc, you are correct. However, the place I took it to after I had the power steering reconditioned did a fairly accurate job (which included moving the left front wheel forward slightly) and got the geometry right without any specs to refer to...

Spurious · 23-02-2016, 07:00 PM

...& before you all ask, I wheel align my own car at home using a long straight edge (1" dowel or thicker, at least 2m in length), a measure tape, a trolley jack (or ramps for minute adjustments) & a couple of spanners.

Simple:
Centre the steering wheel & see which side needs to move, if not both, this is where the long straight edge is used by placing it across the centre line of the rim & hold it parallel to the body.

1: Do this on both sides to see which wheel is off & by roughly how much, by eyeballing the gap between the end of the dowel & the body (@ drivers/pass' doors).

2: Raise the front enough to take the weight off the tyres (not off the ground), then loosen the tie rods & adjust them no more than 1/4 of a turn at a time, repeat step 1 until you're happy they're pretty even both sides.

*Be aware that the wheels will often rest on a slightly different angle when they're raised off or almost off the ground, & wide tyres will often pull to one/either side (whilst driving) depending on road surface. Using ramps for the alignment will ensure the wheels are sitting "normally" during the procedure.

At this point you can tighten the tie rods, lower the car, remove jack & drive along a short straight road to get a feel for it. Repeat step 2 if need be.

Once you're done with the major adjustments, raise the car again (tyres contacting ground) & use the measure tape to accurately measure the distance between the same tread groove on each tyre, the centre most groove for example.
Do this by placing the tape as high as you can against the chassis on the front of the tyres & again at the back (both front tyres of course, NOT the rear tyres LOL).
If there's a difference between the 2 measurements then adjust them TOGETHER a fraction more. ie: if the rear measurement is 3mm wider then the front, then adjust BOTH wheels 1.5mm inward at the back (toeing out).
I personally will tolerate a >1mm difference between the front measurement & the back

If you find the car pulls to one side whilst driving straight, this indicates that (usually) the wheel on the side to which the car pulls will need to be toed IN.
This is not always the case but this is why I use 2 methods of measure at the same time. ie; the dowel straight edge & the measure tape.

Granted that this sounds complicated on paper, you'll find it'll take you roughly 30 to 40mins given that a short drive is advisable after each small adjustment.

I will take photos of my car to prove my theory if necessary, to simply demonstrate that after the last alignment, some 2 years ago, even though I've since bought different wheels, my wheels are dead on, it drives & brakes in a straight line, & the current tyres show no signs of uneven wear & they've been on the car for about 6 months.
I've done 3 alignments on my car in 6 years, each a success!

Spurious · 23-02-2016, 07:25 PM

Ran out of edit time below.

1 other method of comparing wheel position is to use a short straight edge, rest it across the wheel arch to compare where each wheel sits in comparison to the other & the body.
Warning though, you need to be certain that your panels are straight & true on both sides. Also wider tyres will negate this approach unless you have guard flares.

To check/compare the wheels camber, just attach a ball sinker to some string (a plumb bob) & hold the string against the top centre most point of the wheel arch & allow the sinker to rest near the top, & then the bottom of the tyre. Measure & compare the gap between the sinker/string & the tyre.
Again you need to be certain that the body work is near identical on both sides.

Feathers · 23-02-2016, 07:39 PM

I sat and waited while mine was done, and it was only moved around the yard, not roadtested. Once I headed off to work, I noticed that the steering wheel wasn't straight anymore, and had to ring up to let them know I would be back, as I couldn't be late for work. When I got back, the guys remembered my name, and the car was straight in.

4vxc · 23-02-2016, 07:42 PM

Nice work Spurious
What sort of car are you talking about
Just a idea to try, instead of jacking the car up you can actually use sheets of newspaper under the wheels to act as slip plates.
I've done this on my XC as I don't have access to a aligner now
If you're jacking it up I'd be bouncing on car to settle it and probably roll it forward a bit also