Hyundai beats Commodore V6

[RavenLS1]

Originally Posted by blackout

He has a point there, but who knows what the 4.0 has in it?

what do you mean?40nm of torque will pull a BF straight past any hyungai

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Well since all you guys are bashing Holdens engine, dont you think its a little sad Ford's massive 4.0 litre 6 "only" makes 190kW.
Hyundai's 3.3 litre has only 15kW less power. :nutsycuck

They are tuned to make good torque, not high end kw like the Hyundai. If Ford wanted top end kw 200-210 would be a snack.

[brenx]

Originally Posted by aimzes

but just how long will the hyundai motor last? im lucky to go half an hour without seeing a smokie accent or excel.

My 95 S-Coupe 1.5lt had 230,000k's and only blew smoke on start up (valvestem seals). The car owed me a whole $700 in repairs after 9 years of ownership. Relaible? Hell yes. Powerful? Not really although it did go alright with the 5spd manual. I'd guess another 70,000-100,000k's from that car wouldn't be out of the question. I serviced it everytime I added 10,000-12,000k.

That $700 was 1 alternator, 1 battery, 1 starter bearing and one cat back exhaust.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by THE_RAVEN

its still more than the others, we also have a 5.4 puting out 260kw where the holden needs 6.0l to get that output. LMAO

They are seriously detuned though, look at what output they have in the Corvette and HSV.


Any little thing to pick on Holden...tsk tsk

[M14A-Mclaren]

Would anyone actually want a Hyundai over a Commodore?

[brenx]

Originally Posted by M14A-Mclaren

Would anyone actually want a Hyundai over a Commodore?

If you like gadgets in the interior you might?

[Danny]

Originally Posted by XR8fella

Umm, ok, i think your looking on the Hyundai International Site, when i look on the Hyundai Australia site, under Sonata, it comes up with this:





True that, the 260kw figure from the 6litre in the Commy is based on 98octane fuel.



BTW = I couldnt give a toss about Hyundai : But those kinda figures from a 3.3Litre arent bad i reckon. Still, prob only has 100'000km life, like all other Hyundais

I think you'll find that he meant the engine on the new Grandeur, not the Sonata. But he got the names mixed up....

[RavenLS1]

Originally Posted by MethodX

They are seriously detuned though, look at what output they have in the Corvette and HSV.


Any little thing to pick on Holden...tsk tsk

im talking about the gen 4 which is a holden motor, the motor in the hsv is different again

[brenx]

Originally Posted by XR8fella

BTW = I couldnt give a toss about Hyundai : But those kinda figures from a 3.3Litre arent bad i reckon. Still, prob only has 100'000km life, like all other Hyundais

Your so wrong but your entitled to your opinion. Generally once owning one most will change their mind. I know the little 1.5lt 4cyls back in 95 got 550ish k's from 35-37lt of 91ron fuel. Compared to the EL 4.0 Falcon cost wise I could fill the Hyundai tank twice per 1 tank of fuel for the Falcon. Translation Hyndai 1100k's & Falcon 540-560k's. The Falcon owes me a heap more $ for the same time frame of ownership too.

Not everyone want to spend a weeks wages on fuel ;) A work/shopping run about is sufficent.

It's the exact reason my other car is a 02 1.8lt Mazda Astina. Forgot the Mazda had most space inside compared to the equivalent Hyundai. The main reason I bought a Mazda is better resale. Otherwise I'd have another Hyundai sitting in the drive without putting any thought to it. Reliable and cheap to run is what everyone likes.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MethodX

They are seriously detuned though, look at what output they have in the Corvette and HSV.


Any little thing to pick on Holden...tsk tsk

They are not detuned. They are truck motors designed for those power and torque figures, its not designed as a performance motor like the LS2.

[UNR8D]

id buy an Hyundai v6 over the commodore, especialy the granduer, they are a nice piece of kit for the $$ and have a smoother and more driver friendly tendicacy's than they alloytech, i drive plenty of cars as part of my work so yes i have driven them both for extended periods...

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by aimzes

but just how long will the hyundai motor last? im lucky to go half an hour without seeing a smokie accent or excel.

I had a 2000 model excel while I was at uni. I put over 100,000km on it without having one warranty claim. I made sure I did regular services (every 7500km) and it still ran like new when I sold it. I certainly had less troubles with it than I have with the BA. Dont get me wrong I love my ute, but I also have an open mind. I have no doubt that the sonata and granduer will be reliable. I bet they will get 100,000km and beyond without any troubles. The koreans are doing what the Japanese did 20 - 30 years ago, and I beleive in another 10 - 20 years they will have a rep like the japanese.

[naddis01]

Just some more food for thought.

Sonata - 52.42kw/litre
Commo - 47.78kw/litre
Falcon (BF) - 47.5kw/litre

[Iphido]

I suppose Hyundia have just released there new range..

Holdens VE is just months away and the Orion is comming not long after. I suppose its much like when Holden and ford catch up or beat BMW or Mercs lineup.. Older 3 and 5 only had 170kw sixes, merc a 163kw 3.2, until the lineup is refreshed, 182-190kw in the locals. Then the update and the 3.0 is 190 or 195 kw and the Merc 3.5 is 200kw.

While the Falcon has and has always had a sizeable lead in torque. Power sells, and power does factor in performance. While the falcon is more driveable around town, we are still talking about 3.3 and 3.8L engines in sedans they are hardly peaky gutless engines.

I would like to see the Falcon six crack the magic 200kw barrier. Obviously the potential is there. Ideally while meeting tougher EUROIV emissions and improving economy and driveability.

Its still suprising tho the BF's economy is still extremely competitive. 10.2 combined makes it class leading. In theory cruising at ~80kmph should see consumption in the 6's or low 7's. Wonder if you could get 1000 km out of a single 65L fuel tank.

It is interesting to see the evolution of the Koreans. The japanese got a break by jumping on a sleeping american industry that was just style updating vechicals. Now the koreans are doing it to the japs. Many jap models have been style based updates with the same or simular 1990 era mechanicals.

[LethalLeigh]

The six in the Falcon 'only' makes 190kW because it's a long stroke motor with an emphasis on torque and (hopefully) long term reliability, as opposed to say a Honda Integra 4-pot that will rev out to 9000rpm. Aussie cars also have a history of being over-engineered to better suit the pretty average conditions we live in. The XK Falcon showed what happens when a car is developed for Aussie conditions properly.

[2kool4u]

I would be happy to own any of these cars, all of them are a lot faster and more refined than my EF and I aint complaining about my EF. when I put my foot down it goes...

for family cars what more can you expect?

[Iphido]

I certainly think Fords approach of high torque is a excellent one for this country where it outperforms in normal driving either in traffic (where getting a good start from idle is important) to highway (lower cruising revs with better ingear acceleration). 383Nm @ 2500 rpm is outstanding. You have to go to a much larger engine to get that kind of torque at that kind of RPM. Combined with the new six speed its unmatched even with its high kerb weight and economy gearing. 110kmph highway cruising is extremely relaxed and refined yet still able to pull up hills and overtake. Also the fuel economy is also enhanced by keeping the rpm's down and having power targets in the lower end of the RPM range.

But theres a perception that Fords lack for sizzle higher up in the rev range. While driving cars with a wide torque bands is easy it does mean that they may not feel as sporty or as fast as cars with a bit more top end.

Which is why for the XR6 and the Ghia, a engine with a tad more marketing power (200+kw) and a slight increase in top end action could be a advantage.

Toyota, Nissan, Honda all have 3.5L engines with over 200kw of power (and over 220kw!). Holden is stepping up to 200kw in some cars. When these competitors start arriving, then the falcon will appear to be from a marketing perspective, under powered and inefficent with only 190kw from the bigger 4.0. 200kw210kw would be a cinch for the 4.0 anyway

[deesun]

Q1 At what revs does each of these engines make their peak power/torque?
Q2 What is their respective power to weight ratios?

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Well since all you guys are bashing Holdens engine, dont you think its a little sad Ford's massive 4.0 litre 6 "only" makes 190kW.
Hyundai's 3.3 litre has only 15kW less power. :nutsycuck

But has 383Nm of torque, 48 Nm (14%) more than the upper spec Holden V6

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by LethalLeigh

Most European cars are using premium fuels now anyway, if we want motors that run more efficiently we need to move away from this 91 octane rubbish.

I think in Europe their standard unleaded is our premium. I think in the next few years here the octane rating for standard unleaded is meant to go up

[mik]

put a caravan behind the 3 three send em up a hill, i know which car will hit the top first, their high kws wont do ИИИИ for em

[Kenster]

Originally Posted by XR8fella

Umm, ok, i think your looking on the Hyundai International Site, when i look on the Hyundai Australia site, under Sonata, it comes up with this:





True that, the 260kw figure from the 6litre in the Commy is based on 98octane fuel.



BTW = I couldnt give a toss about Hyundai : But those kinda figures from a 3.3Litre arent bad i reckon. Still, prob only has 100'000km life, like all other Hyundais

Well with reading the information on this picture its no wounder Hyundai could beat the Commodore V6 consider they both 6 cyclindar cars the fact that the Commodore run on a DOHC(double over head cam) while the Hyundai runs on quad cam which could have more power develop inside the engine unit than the dohc(which ford and holden runs on)

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Kenter

Well with reading the information on this picture its no wounder Hyundai could beat the Commodore V6 consider they both 6 cyclindar cars the fact that the Commodore run on a DOHC(double over head cam) while the Hyundai runs on quad cam which could have more power develop inside the engine unit than the dohc(which ford and holden runs on)

Number of cams does not automatically mean increase in power/torque. AFAIK its typically to reduce valvetrain issues allowing higher revs. However this isn't always the case if you compare the DOHC Boss and the cam-in-block GenIII ... the low-tech GenIII would typically out-rev the Boss for a number of other reasons ...

[RavenLS1]

Originally Posted by Kenter

Well with reading the information on this picture its no wounder Hyundai could beat the Commodore V6 consider they both 6 cyclindar cars the fact that the Commodore run on a DOHC(double over head cam) while the Hyundai runs on quad cam which could have more power develop inside the engine unit than the dohc(which ford and holden runs on)

dosent a double overhead cam v6 = quad cam

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Kenter

Well with reading the information on this picture its no wounder Hyundai could beat the Commodore V6 consider they both 6 cyclindar cars the fact that the Commodore run on a DOHC(double over head cam) while the Hyundai runs on quad cam which could have more power develop inside the engine unit than the dohc(which ford and holden runs on)

i believe your statement is incorrect.

The commodore is MARKETED as a DOHC when in actually fact it is Quad cam (it is a V6 with two banks of cylinders each bank has 2 cams). Hyandui have just taken a different MARKETING approach in calling it quad cam. Any DOHC V-6 configured engine can be called quad-cam. The BOSS is actually quad cam is it not...

[Kenster]

the Hyundai and the Ford does run the same system in both engine i got to admit its weird how they call it quad cam

ah well at least its show that not all American or Australia are that powerful at times

[steen]

Originally Posted by BAXLS

Just some more food for thought.

Sonata - 52.42kw/litre
Commo - 47.78kw/litre
Falcon (BF) - 47.5kw/litre

Ermm, don't forget the 190kw Commie is 52.78kw/l. Also, 190kw is with ULP on Alloytec190. As some have mentioned, it's all about the powerband not just point estimates & a lot depends on whether we use SAE or DIN... While I've been happy with my BF XR6 A6, the missus' VZ SV6 A5 has been an eye-opener. I prefer the XR6 off the mark (naturally) as I reckon a V6 Camry can jump the SV6 off a standing start. The crazy electronic throttle mapping & ECM basically frustrate driver input. Once you get the hang of it, it just zings gear changes @ 5krpms. If there was ever a call for a manual then this is it.

Hmmm. First post.

[Full Spectrum]

Funny my brothers biggest hate of his Ba is the throttle, He says it's dead to input and it's very limited off the mark. We had a Territory that was slow as off the mark, We thought just think what the Sedan would go like, Not much better after gunning the Terra on the highways with ease our thoughts were Sky's are the limit with the BA sedan. He is disappointed, But of late he has been getting a better feel for the car and getting to learn how to launch it faster. As he said the older cars you could give it some revs and let the brake off, These cars are different.
But call up Herrod and speak to them about some goodies there not cheap but they have many things that will get it under 8sec every time to 100kp/h.