el xr6 or jap cars

[streetracer23]

how u boyz goin.. iv payed a grand to the government and lost my license for 6 months so for some wierd reason i figure ist time to get a performance car... budget is arnd 12k give or take and im thinkin of the el xr6.. only thing is that iv worked so hard for my money i dont know if its the right choice. the falcon ticks all the boxes of rwd, high performance, good looks and the like, but there are other things that im considerin. seein how i cant drive turbos i was thinking.. how does the xr6 stack up to jap cars like the toyota soarer which is an NA RWD 3.0 I6 (not the 2.5 tt version). Especially how im gonna hav the car for yonks and will definately do it up. the jze engine in the soarer loves mods and pretty much everythin is available since it shares much in common with the tt supra. Comparing this with the xr6 it seems to put its nose in front. but bein an aussie u gotta love the ford's muscle and looks over the jap car... Any information re how the xr6 and jap cars of similar caliber compare both stock and worked would b much appreciated.. take it easy and watch out for the coppas and the speed cameras theyr installing left right and center

[bentles]

hey mate with the EL realistically you will be able to make 180rwkw Na, and pull low 14s.


if the soarer can beat them then go for it, if not its a non contest.

soarers arent exactly the roomiest cars and thus arent exactly very comfortable.


i prefer the looks of a clean el xr6 over a soarer any day..

also for about 5k ontop of the price of the EL you could have yourself a fairly simple turbo setup, making around 180rwkw, maybe more if you know what you are doing. 10k into the EL and you can have about 220rwkw if you know what you are doing.

any more power than that and it becomes very expensive as gearbox and diff need to be attended to.

in manual form xr6's are surprisingly quick for a family car, but arent suited very well to turbos. you are best off with a manual as Na or auto if you plan on turbocharging it.


good luck, id rather pick the EL personally, not because i dont like toyotas, more because its probably quicker roomier better looking and cheaper to maintain than the Na soarer.

[streetracer23]

ay man thx heaps aha i wrote the thing and i get a reply 5 mins lata! yea well im 6'4 myself so room is an issue... re transmission its manual no doubts abt it. u say the manual is harder to turbo? cos yea i definitely plan turboing in the long run. what worries me a bit is that the xr6 is relatively low revving so yea i dno how effective the turbo would be.. the soarer comes in 2.5 tt form so yea say u do put 10k into the el and ur gettin 220kw for the same price u could put a tt supra half cut into the soarer and that thing would fly.. but yea u gotta love the aussie xr6 aha i just gotta make my mind up... both cars stock which would go harder u kno? cos itl be a good year or so b4 i get full license n start puttin in some serious mods... also u say theyr cheaper to maintain?? thx heaps for ur help man i been readin this site for a solid week now b4 i joined u guyz r heaps gud take care

[Kenster]

First of all just do your research on the cars you want and take them for a test then see which car do you want to have. Is the best way to do not relay on us here to give you the things, a few people here are like one eye and some are mix arrange you will be even more confuse if you listern to us. Just go and take a test drive of well kept car whether you would buy it or not, and go from there.

[streetracer23]

ah nah man im not relyin on u guys for anythin jus tryna get sum advice from those who might know sumthn abt it

[bentles]

ive never been in a na 6 soarer but im a tad under 6 foot and i found the v8 model rather uncomfortable to be in (passenger seat, dash is literally right where my knees belong)

[plext]

Please try to type properly, not everybody reads txt fluently.

[EDXRSIX]

my choice over a N/A soarer as i think theyre too big and barge like would be a N/A R32 or R33 skyline...im 6'2 and i fit in them pretty comfortably...and they got a fair bit of boot in them too. if ya get the RB25DE....theyre sick motors...sound awesome and they get up and go.

i would take the skyline over the ELXR6....im a bit over falcons at the moment though haha.

but do some research into alot of options...there are alot of non turbs performance jap cars out there...take your time lookin around dude.

my 2c

[streetracer23]

aha yea i know there are but how many skylines, supras, wrxs, rx7s etc etc do u see... i want sumthn unique.. u dont see to many hardore els or soarers or george st sat nite but its packed with the rest of those things

[EDXRSIX]

my next car is going to be a Nissan Cefiro....S13 Chassis with the Skyline motor.

they look tuff as. look out for some of them

[streetracer23]

yea man i have an a32 maxima which is very similar to the cefiro... problem is that its auto. putting an rb in an s13 chasis sounds nice the thing should rocket which motor rb25 or 26 or the 20

[EDXRSIX]

yea man theyre ace cars.....the RB25 turbo plus the silvia chassis = drift machine

yea the maximas are prety much the same except like more of the family car type thing.

ya can fit Rb26DETT into ceffys too......there is a tuff car right there. pretty unique too

[Royal Blue]

fords don't hold their value real well and can be somewhat difficult to sell, so i'd consider how long you plan to hang onto your newly aquired car.

soarers came out with depending on what model with the following engines, 5mge, 1ggte, 1jzgte, 1uzfe, 7mge, 7mgte.

-5M's are from the old school mid 80's soarers, and are unrelaible
-7mge's came out in the later 80's, 3ltr inline 6 and suffer headgasket probs
-7mgte's same as above except turbo, with the addition of injector probs
-1ggte's are the other option for the late 80's soarers with the more reliable 2ltr inline 6 twin turbo, but have little torque and don't respond real well with mods without $$$ spent
-1jzgte's are from the early 90's and the are the pick of the bunch with a 2.5ltr inline 6 twin turbo, reliable, rather exspensive to modify, but can hold decent power with standard internals.
-the 1uzfe is the other option for the early 90's soarers with a 4ltr quad cam V8, these engine can cope with over 700hp with standard internals with the addition of of a couple of decent turbos. but don't expect any change from $20k for that.

there are bugger all manual soarers floating around and a manual conversion usually requires a custom pedal box. i only know of a handful of factory manual soarers, and the paid top dollar to get one.

servicing a soarer post 90's can be reasonably exspensive, suspension is expsensive to replace, if you blow and engine or gearbox components, they can be pricy to repair.

a supra tt half cut costs and absolute fortune, atleast $6k+ for a 2jzgte 6sp cut (without labour to install), then you have a std engine that costs you your first born to modify.

With an EL XR you have cheap servicing and parts, cheap to modify, they are a fair bit lighter (EL 1500odd KG? vs 1600+kg from a soarer). weak points are the gearbox and diff, which there are plenty off the shelf upgrades for them. the 4ltr 6's respond extremely well to turbochargers, for the price of completing a 2j conversion to the soarer, you should be able to turbocharge the EL.

for 12k your should be able to get an extremly clean EL XR6 5sp. and get change to do some work.

my money would be on the EL, cheaper to buy, cheaper to service/maintain, cheaper to modify, and can make just as much power as a 2J. and is just as reliable if built properly.

im trying to give an un-biased opinion.

Dan

[streetracer23]

yea plus its fwd the cefiros go to the rear....how much is it gna cost u? and do u plan altering the suspension, gearbox etc to cope with all the power... aha man u gotta hav sum cash to put that project together good luck tho

[JETME]

i own a EL XR6, they have a bit of punch with ext and exhaust, if you are to purchase one only buy 5speed manual, its alot more responsive if performance is what your after,they are an overall beautiful car, cant fault them, but at the end of the day, its no rocket, and there are alot of Jap cars which pull quicker numbers for the money.

cheers

[Royal Blue]

i guess it all depends on how much you are actually willing to spend in the future as well. if you plan to spend in the future less than 20 grand inc. the price of the car, id suggest going for a Jap car.

[EDXRSIX]

Rb26 into a ceffy isnt the easiest of transplants...

ya can get cheap half cuts....id get a R32 GTR half cut incl.. motor and G/box.

then custom crossmembers need to be made up..but im not too sure on the rest of the driveline...

not too sure about the price..it will happen one day haha.

but back on topic....some good points were raised about the El's being cheaper and more reliable and just about as powerful with less money spent. id go for jap though.

[Royal Blue]

basically, gearbox and engine mounts can be used for a 26 ceffy, but there is no point going for a half cut. you need to run an rb25det gearbox (atleast 2k with clutch), and id suggest aftermarket management. you'd be looking at 10grand for the conversion.

[streetracer23]

thx royal blu yeh i kno a manual soarer is rediculous to come by.. the sc300 does hav the 2jzge engine in it tho i think. look both cars have their pros and cons and im tryna get ppl to make my mind up aha.... but yeh all ur advice is heaps good thx alot man.. also.. u said if u plan on spending less than 20k go for the jap car yeah? what i intend to do is buy the thing, do some of the smaller cheaper mods like extractors, cold air intake, exhaust etc then down the line get into it seriously.. turboing is definately on the table with some time but i dont just want a quick sytaight line car i want a propper street car overall and speed is only one aspect... id like to keep my car for as long as possible and treat it like a project where everything gradually improves. i dno if the xr6 has sufficient aftermarket support to do this.

[burkie_21]

the other thing you said was you didn't wanna be cop bait. you said you cant drive a turbo yet so i am presuming your on your p's. a soarer will be cop bait as the majority are either turbo ore quad cam v8. soon as cop see's that car with p's they nab you.
and with the xr6 have you thought about supercharging it?? can keep the manual and are readily available to

[BRADMAN]

go the falcon....parts are cheap as....plenty of mods both cheap & expensive....good power responses for small budgets.....depending on outside can plend in and reduce "cop bait".....easier to fix.....in the EL upwards they are reasonably easy to get to most parts unlike the EA-ED manifold which is a beatch for someone with bigger hands....and best of all....you can bring your ride along to this clubs meets
the only long term downside to a falcon is the headgaskit...but that can be fixed with a AU metal gaskit.....ohh and lastly.....these 6's can take a pounding before they give up.

brad

[FRDXR6]

Hey Steetracer23 I might be able to offer you some advice as I have owned both a 96 5spd XR6, 91 TT soarer and currently 93 TT Soarer.

To be honest I loved the falcon but the build quality and reliability of the Toyota is literally a decade ahead of the falcon. Not to mention all the funky gadgetry you get with the Soarers

Originally Posted by burkie_21

the other thing you said was you didn't wanna be cop bait. you said you cant drive a turbo yet so i am presuming your on your p's. a soarer will be cop bait as the majority are either turbo ore quad cam v8

You’d be surprised how little attention the cops pay to Soarers I have never been pulled over – they only go for you if you have a massive bodykit & dumped 10mm from the ground otherwise there usually chasing VL’s and Skylines.

Originally Posted by streetracer23

also.. u said if u plan on spending less than 20k go for the jap car yeah? what i intend to do is buy the thing, do some of the smaller cheaper mods like extractors, cold air intake, exhaust etc then down the line get into it seriously.. turboing is definately on the table with some time but i dont just want a quick sytaight line car i want a propper street car overall and speed is only one aspect... id like to keep my car for as long as possible and treat it like a project where everything gradually improves. i dno if the xr6 has sufficient aftermarket support to do this.

For longer term reliability I would go Jap car. Have a read through all threads where guys have done turbo conversions on Falcons. Most of them seem to be very unreliable and theres always something to fix, replace, rebuild. Having said that they make awesome power once there up and running.

The R154 manual box in the soarer has been known to handle well over 300rwkw reliably. The auto with a cooler and shiftkit will is capable of running up to 280rwkw daily. The stock engine internals on a 1JZ/2JZ-GTE are also capable of holding a reliable 300rwkw.

Originally Posted by Royal Blue

there are bugger all manual soarers floating around and a manual conversion usually requires a custom pedal box. i only know of a handful of factory manual soarers, and the paid top dollar to get one.

servicing a soarer post 90's can be reasonably exspensive, suspension is expsensive to replace, if you blow and engine or gearbox components, they can be pricy to repair.

a supra tt half cut costs and absolute fortune, atleast $6k+ for a 2jzgte 6sp cut (without labour to install), then you have a std engine that costs you your first born to modify.

With an EL XR you have cheap servicing and parts, cheap to modify, they are a fair bit lighter (EL 1500odd KG? vs 1600+kg from a soarer). weak points are the gearbox and diff, which there are plenty off the shelf upgrades for them. the 4ltr 6's respond extremely well to turbochargers, for the price of completing a 2j conversion to the soarer, you should be able to turbocharge the EL.

for 12k your should be able to get an extremly clean EL XR6 5sp. and get change to do some work.

my money would be on the EL, cheaper to buy, cheaper to service/maintain, cheaper to modify, and can make just as much power as a 2J. and is just as reliable if built properly.

im trying to give an un-biased opinion.

Dan

The JZZ30 (non-turbo) had a 2JZ-GE in it.

Manuals are hard to come by, but then again so is a good condition manual EL XR6. Prices have really come down lately and you can get neat TT manuals for ~12k. I don’t think the non-turbo or V8’s ever had a factory manual option.

Also Soarer parts are not as expensive as everyone thinks, join the soarer club and you know where to find good parts from wreckers and they even have connections with importers and local Toyota Parts departments to basically get you cost price on brand new parts. A low km 1JZ can be had for under $1k with turbo’s and manifold if you look around, auto boxes are also plentiful and about $400-500.

Suspension is only pricey if you get a UZZ30/31 (the V8 models) with the airbag or active suspension, none of which your soarer would have. So basically a strut and spring combo wont set you back much more than what it would cost to do on an EL. Also theres plenty of aftermarket support in terms of coilovers etc available (post 90’s soarer suspension is interchangeable with JZA80 supra’s).

Depending what route you go you have several options for the turbo conversion (roughly incl. labour).
1. 1JZ Conversion $4-7k
2. 2JZ Conversion $6-10k with R154 or auto (add mega $$$ for a 6speed)
3. 1.5JZ (2JZ bottom end/1JZ head) Cheap and easy to do, engine still looks like a 1JZ, but you have extra .5L displacement.

My stock 1JZ made 160rwkw

+ Intercooler Kit ($450)
+ Catback Exhaust ($400)
+ Cold Air Intake (Free)
+ Boost Controller ($50)

For under $1k it made 207rwkw on 13psi.

Next is cams, adjustable cam gear and emanage for 240-250rwkw, then injectors, dumps and 18psi where it will max out the turbos at 270rwkw.

All up I’ll have a RELIABLE and LEGAL 250-270rwkw for under $3.5k.

[Rob]

Depends on what you want - they are worlds apart.

The Ford I6 is coarse, rough and loud. However, it is nigh unbreakable in NA form, and produces good power and torque. They sound awesome too!

I've owned my share of cars - VN 5.0 manuals, VT GTS, AU I6, Corolla Levin etc. V8's are great fun, but there is something endearing about the 4 litre, it can punch above its weight. True, you wont hold a modded LS1 or Boss 5.4, but you can acheive good 1/4 times with the 4 litre, and they feel fast, which is something a lot of quick cars fail to do.

I've had a drive of a mates 4 litre V8 QuadCam soarer, and its smoooooth, pulls hard to the redline and drives beautifully. However, you feel a bit removed from the car, you're riding IN the car, rather than being a part of it. My ED is FUN! Can drive it hard, wrench it around corners, great fun. And its cheap to mod, parts easy to come by.

[Royal Blue]

you'd be hard pressed to get a "RELIABLE" 250-270rwkws with 3.5k.. even if you did all the work yourself, and got everything cheap/second hand.

[FRDXR6]

Actually its not as hard as you would think. Most of the following includes labour except for adjustable cam gear & tuning (mate tunes it for me).

+ Intercooler Kit ($450)
+ Catback Exhaust ($400)
+ Cold Air Intake (Free)
+ Boost Controller ($50)
+ Greddy E-manage ($550)
+ Dump & mid pipe ($300)
+ 440cc Injectors ($200)
+ USDM 2JZ Cams ($600)
+ Adjustable Cam Gear ($160)
+ Shift Kit & Tranny Cooler ($650)

= $3,360

Granted that my stock turbos were already rebuilt with steel wheels and can handle 18psi. On stock ceramic wheeled turbos i wouldnt push past 13-14psi for reliabilty sake.

[Gohan]

with the JZZ30 soarer is that they are heavy a door weighs 135kgs! i have been in R32 GTR and in a Soarer but theres more imports to be had i get in the same argument with my mate hes lookin to upgrade to the 'other side' Holdens i say get a 2JZGTTE Supra with the Six Speed maual box but getting all that power down is kinda hard with the 2JZ!! (JZZ30 has more room in the front and alot of sound deadning)

i already have my next car picked out BCNR33 GTR V-spec and just do some limited mods to it like bigger cooler, twin pod filters, 70mm exauste from turbos back, ECU, boost controler and turbo timer

ohh yeh stock turbos love high boost pressures!! u will find some of them living in the cat conveter and inside the engine!

[FRDXR6]

Originally Posted by Gohan

ohh yeh stock turbos love high boost pressures!! u will find some of them living in the cat conveter and inside the engine!

If that was in reference to my post?

18psi on rebuilt CT12a's converted to steel wheels is easily achievable for a daily and has been proven many times over the years. I said if you still have the stock ceramic wheeled CT12a's dont run over 13-14psi. Which is basically what natural boost creeps to with an exhaust, FMIC and CAI anyway...most guys tend to hit boost cut already (~14.5psi) with these mods.

[Gohan]

yeh it was FRDXR6. u can change to US CT12a's they have steel wheels sets

with a GTR the turbos are garrets non squential system not the Supra were its squential (hence GTRs have a quicker off the line due to those twins spooling up at the same time)

[FRDXR6]

Interesting which US spec Toyota's recieved CT12a's?

[xr64d]

hey, hows it going?
ive been driving an el xr6 for about 8 yrs now lotsa fun, im running pedders red and have replaced all the rubbers for nurathane (SORRY FOR THE SPELLING) so it handles well, 5 spd, a little engine work, exhaust, ect. eats plenty of holden 8's but i still want more!
i have been thinking of droping an rb26 in with man box and doing a 9inch conversion in the rear. i think the japs know whats going on and its nothing to get 400kw outa 1 of thoes, i figure why not combined the two for a nice looking fast car, u can make the 4ltr go hard just look at jim mock, but half the jap stuff was desinged to put out that sorta kw pluse more.
anyways thats just my thoughts.

by the way has any one ever herd of a rb26 been droped into an EL?