How the hell do toyota sell these??!

I FluXx I · 22-06-2008, 07:47 PM

Im in melbourn at the moment with family and we had the pleasure of getting a FG XT hire car with 2000kms on it. We had to drive to Portland to pick up my sis and it was such a nice drive. The car has so many features and is really comfortable. You wouldnt think your in a base model at all. Unfortunatly the other night while parked at crown the car got its drivers side window smashed and the gps stolen. So we had to bring it back and get a new car. We ended up with a camry..........

I honestly dont know how this car sells. It also has 2000kms on the clock and its the biggest pile of junk car ever. Im not bagging out toyota just because im a ford fan, but because the car really is crap. Feels cheaper and more plastic inside than the BA's, The stereo is absolutly pathetic, the seats are very uncomfortable and we couldnt find anything to adjust the lumbar support, it dosnt seem to have a button to turn off traction controle, There is a light to say cruise controle is on but nothing to say its set, limited speedo functions such as fuel usage, the hand brake is on the wrong side of the gear stick prob cos of it being used all over the world, the trans is rough, and worst of all this car absolutely no power or torque. Its very hard to over take people.

Did I mention this car has some of the most uncomfortable seats. Me and my brother steped out with lower back pain and mum who has a bad hip got out in pain.

It just really anoys me that Ford can create such a nice car with better styling and drive train, nicer more comfortable interior with more saftey features and they still sell less than camry.

Romulus · 22-06-2008, 08:03 PM

I agree, although my hire experience was with a VE Calais.

Having had to travel to Sydney from Perth 2 weekends in a row, the first weekend I was there I got a VE Calais at a special rate. Just couldn't get comfortable in it, and it lacked low down torque.

2nd weekend coming across I had arranged to hire a Camry/Aurion as the VE was a disappointment. Fortunately I was offered a BFII XR6 auto. Can't believe how much better the BF drove. Yeah, I'm probably biased, but I felt right at home in the BF.

My brief stint in a G6ET a while ago would leave the Holden and Toyota for dead.

aye you · 22-06-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I FluXx I

How The Hell Do Toyota Sell These

easy, one word, cheap
The NT gov use these as fleet vehicles to boot

Auslandau · 22-06-2008, 08:23 PM

Had a short stint last week in a new Corolla, rented! I was really surprised how bad it was to drive, short seats, very uncomfortable, very plain and just a terrible thing to drive. I havn't driven a front wheel drive small car for ages and thought thats how they are. For a small car it must be good! Number one seller and all that! So managed to get a Mazda 3 and the difference in the 2 were amazing, it felt tighter, more fun to drive, easier, and I didnt feel like I was slipping off the seats! I am sure people buy because they are told ... "Toyota is good ..... everything else bad!!!

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Dezza · 22-06-2008, 09:21 PM

It's amazing the number of people who buy Toyotas without considering any other cars. These are the people who buy the 4 cylinder Camrys (well, all new Camrys are 4 cylinder anyway) and think it's going to have great fuel economy. A small engine lugging around a large car is not economical at all. The Corollas have nothing on the Focus or Mazda3.

XR6_190 · 22-06-2008, 09:42 PM

most people that buy Toyotas (mainly Camry and Corolla) don't even consider other cars, now most car enthusiasts know that Camry/ Corolla are crap, but that doesn't matter because they all see Fords as 'poorly built petrol guzzlers' but at the same time they see Toyotas as bulletproof cars that run off of the smell of an oily rag.

If you tell these people that a 4 cyl Camry will use as much juice as a 6 cyl Falcon they just laugh at you. It's the same as the tools that buy the Holden Barina, Nobody bought a Daewoo Kalos, then Holden stuck a Barina badge on it, and look it's in the top 20 sales.

At the end of the day Perception wins and truth comes in a distant second.

XR Martin · 22-06-2008, 10:20 PM

In the Camry you can get the trans really confused by stomping on the pedal a few times rapidly, the delay in pressing the pedal to getting any acceleration is preposterous.

RSgerry · 22-06-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Had a short stint last week in a new Corolla, rented! I was really surprised how bad it was to drive, short seats, very uncomfortable, very plain and just a terrible thing to drive. I havn't driven a front wheel drive small car for ages and thought thats how they are. For a small car it must be good! Number one seller and all that! So managed to get a Mazda 3 and the difference in the 2 were amazing, it felt tighter, more fun to drive, easier, and I didnt feel like I was slipping off the seats! I am sure people buy because they are told ... "Toyota is good ..... everything else bad!!!

couldnt agree more. iad a Corollarental car in Melbourne about 18 months ago and the thing was just plain nasty. gutless, uncomfortable, cheap and nasty. driving from the airport to Ballarat at night and there is no function to dim the dash lights!!! FFS, my 28 year old Escort has that facility. we also own a Mazda 3 and the difference between that and the toymota is amazing. the corolla is truly a nsty car.

Hunter · 22-06-2008, 10:28 PM

IMO the Focus and the BA have/had much much worse interiors than I saw in any recent Corollas. My sister owned an 05 hatch and now an 08 hatch and they were 'ok' to drive, they weren't bad but they weren't really special. I drove an 07 corolla sedan when I was on holidays in Tas and it was a bucket of . It drove far worse than my sisters 05. The 05 had about 10-15 kw less power than the 08 does now (apparently this was due to emissions standards not being met until recently etc).

I just signed the papers on a new Mazda 3 and yes I did test drive and look at the Corollas. I also test drove the Focus (the interior made me think it was a Focarse) and a Citroen.

The Focus handled and drove very nicely, the Corolla was very pedestrian and I felt awkward in the seats - I felt like the dashboard was trying to swallow me up. The gearbox on the manual was horrible - it felt vague and disconnected, as did the clutch. I put this down to the stupidly high mounting point of the shifter - presumably for women - and consequently it probably has eleventy billion linkages between it and the actual gearbox. The Focus' gear box was great and its shifter was much closer to the box (in the sensible position). The auto toyotas are pretty sluggish and the 07 auto corolla sedan I drove down in Tas was so gutless I couldn't even beat a fully loaded B double up a long slope.

We bought the Mazda 3 because its interior shat on the Focus' from a great height and they both share (or at least used share) a lot of the same mechanical components. Plus the Mazda is built in Japan and the Focus is built in south africa. Coincidentally the VW Polo (which I also looked at) was also built in South africa and its interior and build quality were just as hopeless as the Focus'.

As it turns out, Toyota sell just as many Corollas as Mazda sells 3's.

I can understand why people buy corollas, its largely brand recognition and in general they are fairly safe cars for their size.

Oh and I almost forgot the citroen c3 - it was well built and its interior was fabulous (better than pretty much most of the cars I saw) BUT its French and the auto sucked more bags of flaming a$$ than any other auto I've ever had to drive (including the piece of crap that lives in my Falcon).

uranium_death · 22-06-2008, 10:46 PM

It's no secret that when it comes to a car that offers balance of cost, power, comfort and style, the Camry and Corolla are way, way down in their respective classes.

It's no secret that I dislike Toyota for this reason.

A friend of mine has a Mazda 3 and loves it to death. Loves the body, interior, gearbox and how it goes, even though it isn't anything special. His parents have a Camry, so he considered the Corolla, and told me that while the Corolla has a good name, it wasn't a nice car to drive.

If I get a ride for tennis with my team mate, it's in a Corolla. He swears by Toyotas.
The interior of the XF (17-18 year difference) is nicer and the seats are like wooden church pews. I've never had the 'pleasure' of driving a Corolla, but for me, interior and comfort are of major importance to me.

I love the interior of the FG and I hope that everybody looking at a car in its class gives the Falcon serious consideration.

King Nothing · 23-06-2008, 08:36 AM

The pool cars we had at work when I started were crewmans, I thought they were bad. We now have corollas, and OMG what a gutless bucket it was. Sure it looked ok, interior was typical toyota, bland but functional.

Although put the foot down and nothing at all happens. It seriously feels like there is no difference in response between 1/2 and full throttle. My 89 corolla felt a hell of a lot faster, it was almost as slow as an 87 corolla we were looking at for my fiancee last year.

And barinas, don't get me started. My fiancee, against all advice, went with a 96 barina. What a load of crap that car is. I remember looking at a new barina at last years motor show. The doors felt like they were made of used milo tins they were that thin. The door handles felt cheap, the interior was awful and cheap, the seats were rock hard with no support at all. I didn't feel safe sitting in it on the showroom floor! If anything it's much much worse than the 96.

Fev · 23-06-2008, 09:20 AM

i had to drive a 2003 camry off my drive way(my bro was selling it for his gf's dad, dont ask me why ???)

it was an auto. I started it, had my foot on the brake like normal put it into reverse and it idled itts way up my street at about 15km's.. WTF.. i then drove onto my driveway and it flew up that which isnt exactly flat, didnt touch the throttle at all. It doesnt idle, its either GO or foot on the brake hard. the seats are rubbish and for a tall guy you have to 'crouch' in your seat to see out properly.. hated it

Poetic Justice · 23-06-2008, 09:28 AM

I'm a little baffled as to how someone can compare a Corolla to a Crewman for power and throttle response.

Duh.... one is a 1.8 4 cyl and the other is a 3.8 V6? Pretty damn hard to make that observation!

I reckon Mazda's are nice looking cars for sure. Toyota has always been rather conservative, and plays to the conservative people of the country where Mazda caters for other interests. Hence the "cardigan" stereotype of Toyota's design styles.

A lot of it comes down to money however. All reports tell me that Mazda's are relatively expensive to service and don't have a full size spare. Toyota's offer that full size spare as standard, and all of the passenger sedans/hatches (Camry, Aurion, Corolla, Yaris) have service pricing capped at $120 per service for the first 3 years (6 services/60,000kms)

I've driven plenty of harsh cars... my one hate for the Corolla is it's blind spots. I drive one day in day out, though it's the 6 speed manual so I can give it a little more in the acceleration department... Other than that I find it a great little car.

Hunter · 23-06-2008, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

A lot of it comes down to money however. All reports tell me that Mazda's are relatively expensive to service and don't have a full size spare. Toyota's offer that full size spare as standard, and all of the passenger sedans/hatches (Camry, Aurion, Corolla, Yaris) have service pricing capped at $120 per service for the first 3 years (6 services/60,000kms)

Nah I looked into this - the $120 service cap isn't really worth much - it does not cover anything other than the standard oil change and tune - apparently anything else you have to pay for. There's so much fine print associated with this 'fixed service price'. Not only that, you have to service the Toyota more frequently than the Mazda - the Mazda 3 needs servicing every 10,000 or 6 months, whichever comes first.

The other thing to consider is that the Mazda 3, afaik shares a lot of mechanical parts with the Focus so parts availability isn't going to be much of an issue.

Tobey · 23-06-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

Nah I looked into this - the $120 service cap isn't really worth much - it does not cover anything other than the standard oil change and tune - apparently anything else you have to pay for. There's so much fine print associated with this 'fixed service price'. Not only that, you have to service the Toyota more frequently than the Mazda - the Mazda 3 needs servicing every 10,000 or 6 months, whichever comes first.

The other thing to consider is that the Mazda 3, afaik shares a lot of mechanical parts with the Focus so parts availability isn't going to be much of an issue.

We have had a mazda SP23 for 3 years now. Not one single problem with it. Very nice car to drive too.

We also bought the missus subaru second-hand from mazda dealer, and they have great service and they are great to deal with too.

Quote:

In the Camry you can get the trans really confused by stomping on the pedal a few times rapidly, the delay in pressing the pedal to getting any acceleration is preposterous.

Thats Toyota's lovely fly by wire...

tex · 23-06-2008, 10:08 AM

They sell because they are a Toyota, and they are worshipped by the cardigan wearing, rug on back seat brigade. More often than not the white hat takes pride of place on the parcel shelf.

Generally though they are fairly indistructable, but I often wonder if this is more a reflection of how the cardigan brigade baby them.

Hunter · 23-06-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobey

We have had a mazda SP23 for 3 years now. Not one single problem with it. Very nice car to drive too.

Good to hear. I've spoken to several very happy Mazda 3 owners - one lady and her husband liked it so much they upgraded their single mazda 3 to two of the newer model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

They sell because they are a Toyota, and they are worshipped by the cardigan wearing, rug on back seat brigade. More often than not the white hat takes pride of place on the parcel shelf.

The other day I got a shock when I saw a Camry being driven very aggressively but worse I noticed a bowls hat on the parcel shelf. And yes it was being driven by some old dude!

vztrt · 23-06-2008, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

They sell because they are a Toyota, and they are worshipped by the cardigan wearing, rug on back seat brigade. More often than not the white hat takes pride of place on the parcel shelf.

Generally though they are fairly indistructable, but I often wonder if this is more a reflection of how the cardigan brigade baby them.

Nah not indistructable, 40,000k's + me = dead transmission and blown headgasket and warped head. <----4cyl Camry

King Nothing · 23-06-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUD

I'm a little baffled as to how someone can compare a Corolla to a Crewman for power and throttle response.

Duh.... one is a 1.8 4 cyl and the other is a 3.8 V6? Pretty damn hard to make that observation!

I reckon Mazda's are nice looking cars for sure. Toyota has always been rather conservative, and plays to the conservative people of the country where Mazda caters for other interests. Hence the "cardigan" stereotype of Toyota's design styles.

A lot of it comes down to money however. All reports tell me that Mazda's are relatively expensive to service and don't have a full size spare. Toyota's offer that full size spare as standard, and all of the passenger sedans/hatches (Camry, Aurion, Corolla, Yaris) have service pricing capped at $120 per service for the first 3 years (6 services/60,000kms)

I've driven plenty of harsh cars... my one hate for the Corolla is it's blind spots. I drive one day in day out, though it's the 6 speed manual so I can give it a little more in the acceleration department... Other than that I find it a great little car.

I wasn't comparing the two, ok my wording wasn't great. The point I was making was that the choice of car has gone from bad to worse. And I was comparing the new corolla's response with previous model corollas.

But if I wanted to compare the two, a good one would be blind spots. As you say the corollas have bad blind spots, in fact some of the worst I've ever seen. I feel about the same in the crewman, which I didn't expect (I thought the crewman would be a lot worse!). I don't hate the corolla, its just such a bland car. Sure it sells, but I wouldn't buy one.

tex · 23-06-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Nah not indistructable, 40,000k's + me = dead transmission and blown headgasket and warped head. <----4cyl Camry

Ok, thats unusual though isn't it?

I bet you don't have a rug over the back seat or a hat on the parcel shelf though

My dear old mum has had 4 0r 5 of the things over the last 15 or so years
and honest to goodness, has spent nothing on them other than consumerables and scheduled servicing. Not one issue in any of them.

alecrain · 23-06-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Had a short stint last week in a new Corolla, rented! I was really surprised how bad it was to drive, short seats, very uncomfortable, very plain and just a terrible thing to drive.... I am sure people buy because they are told ... "Toyota is good ..... everything else bad!!!

I had a similar experience with a rental CRAPolla automatic.
I expected so much more after the "best selling car of all times" but I just couldn't get comfortable in it, the hour it took me to get to work I was in pain, and the moment I got out I couldn't feel my legs.

Handling was also really bad, power steering was too powerful and made it impossible to feel the road through the steering wheel.

Acceleration was so bad I was afraid to merge, I would wait for a huuuuge gap in traffic before I even considered "stepping on it".
I love my ford

LTDterri · 23-06-2008, 11:49 AM

I agree with every thing you said IFluXxI, we have a number of Falcons and Camry's as pool cars at work, I always try to get hold of a Falcon but some weeks ago all that was available was a Camry, Day 1 I hated it for every reason you have mentioned but as time wore on I began to appriciate it for what it was and after 2 weeks I began to like this vehicle, I particularily liked that it had 50k on it and it didn't rattle and still felt fairly tight as apposed to our 50k Falcons. I had the worst shoulder pain though and I put this down to driver position as I felt on sat on it not in it...Any way as soon as a Falcon was available again I took it even though its not built as well as the Camry, it feels more comfortable to drive

Poetic Justice · 23-06-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alecrain

I had a similar experience with a rental CRAPolla automatic.
I expected so much more after the "best selling car of all times" but I just couldn't get comfortable in it, the hour it took me to get to work I was in pain, and the moment I got out I couldn't feel my legs.

Handling was also really bad, power steering was too powerful and made it impossible to feel the road through the steering wheel.

Acceleration was so bad I was afraid to merge, I would wait for a huuuuge gap in traffic before I even considered "stepping on it".
I love my ford

I've driven the new generation Corolla, in particular the Levin SX model with 6 speed manual since new years eve. (Have had two, one black one blue) and can't empathise with you here.

I don't mind the handling, the car does what I tell it to do. The steering is beautiful and light... and the acceleration, well I can't say much about the auto because I don't drive one, but in the manual it's fine... and I've driven a plethora of fast cars to make the comparison in acceleration of cars.

The seats in the model I drive are adjustable so it is easy to get comfortable. It has a nice leather steering wheel with controls for the stereo. The stereo is a 6 stack cd player (mp3) with an iPod input jack, as well as a bluetooth setup which is awesome to use. All up, I find in favour of the Corolla as being a good car doing what you need. However, this is based on driving the Levin SX model, not the Ascent which doesn't have those features.

vztrt · 23-06-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

Ok, thats unusual though isn't it?

I bet you don't have a rug over the back seat or a hat on the parcel shelf though

My dear old mum has had 4 0r 5 of the things over the last 15 or so years
and honest to goodness, has spent nothing on them other than consumerables and scheduled servicing. Not one issue in any of them.

Nah had cheap seat covers on it.

But the one thing that throws me is when the auto went (20,000k's into it) I went to go get it fixed. And according to the auto guy he knew exactly what the issue was in 10 seconds and said that the cage bearing breaks on these things. Now I wouldn't have been surprised if I was told yeah hard driving will do that. But when you get told that pensioners come in with this problem and they need to find about $2500 and more if the transaxle gets damaged as can happen with the steel bearing your up for more money.

sleekism · 23-06-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aye you

easy, one word, cheap
The NT gov use these as fleet vehicles to boot

I visited the hospital the other day and in the carpark where the hospital staff park EVERY SINGLE car was a Camry. It was really quite frightening this sea of Camrys (about 20-30) it kind of reminded me of Star Wars with the sea of white storm troopers.

Having driven both auto and manual Camry what I can say is STAY AWAY FROM THE SLUSHBOX CAMRY. Driving up on a hill on the highway in the Camry it could not maintain 100km/h even dropping back gears and revving it's tits before. It really was a weird feeling as owning a Falcon I have never actually noticed that there are hills around. It is also a very tiring ride the Camry I like the Falcon as regardless what time of the day I can spontaneously decide to drive to Brisbane. My mate drove his Falcon Brisbane to Melbourne in one trip towing a trailer.

The manual Camry is a bit better but honestly for a "Sportivo" the suspension wasn't very well sorted. It honestly had the feeling of driving a ute you know where you have no idea what the back of the vehicle is doing. The interior made me think of Mcdonalds trays.

The thing I don't understand is even though the Corolla is absolutely huge now the "hottest Corolla ever" only has 100kw. I'm pretty sure we were able to buy a 100kw Corolla 20 years ago not to mention one with ancient rear suspension.

McobraR · 23-06-2008, 01:01 PM

Good customer service is probably the reason, also build quality, and as someone mentioned, price. Dad has a 2000 4cyl camry, and while the plastics do look cheap that thing is just rock solid. My VT has had so many problems here and there that it just aint funny. As for fuel consumption, depends whether your gonna be driving it in the city or highway, 4cyl dont drink much in city driving

Swordsman88 · 23-06-2008, 01:10 PM

Ah good old Toyota....what great cars they build....... NOT. I believe in having an open mind about cars and brands, and not just worship Ford or any other brand. Depending on your needs, budget, tastes etc. any number of brands and models might suit.

However, in recent times particularly, as brands like Ford, Mazda, VW and many others have launched good cars, and Toyota has launched what most knowledgeable people would call 'duds', my view on the 'big T' has changed a bit. I don't think i would recommend any current passenger car toyota for a person to buy, under any circumstance. By most objective measures, they are falling increasingly off the pace. Many Toyota buyers i know bought it because they didn't know any better, or are fanboys of the brand. None of the buyers seemed to have any understanding at all about cars or what is available in the market.

The corolla is probably their worse car IMO, but the camry aint far behind. Toyota sell because of their strong market position, brand awareness and huge amounts of advertising. I know taking car journos as gospel isn't always smart, but i dont think i've seen a Toyota come close to winning a comparison in 5 years. The 'new' corolla lost majorly to the Golf and Mazda 3 when it came out, and they are old models up for replacement soon.

From my own personal experience, i find toyotas to be tiring to drive, sub-par in ride/handling/comfort, not particularly good value and totally uninspiring. And their interiors....

Not meaning to insult any toyota owners on this forum, but if anyone did buy a late-model Toyota (non commercial anyway) i'd love to know why. I can't imagine even touching one.

Swordsman88 · 23-06-2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I visited the hospital the other day and in the carpark where the hospital staff park EVERY SINGLE car was a Camry. It was really quite frightening this sea of Camrys (about 20-30) it kind of reminded me of Star Wars with the sea of white storm troopers.

LOL. It can be a bit like that....they are a virus, sapping the strength of their drivers (ironic since it was a hospital!).

It is worth noting however that increasingly Toyota is becoming very dependent on fleets for its large sales. The mazda 3 is the highest selling car for private buyers in the country, whereas the camry, corolla and even aurion are now a high percentage of fleet sales. This could hurt their legenday resale in the long haul, but more importantly it represents that maybe finally the average buyer has started to leave toyota for other brands (probably mostly mazda). We can only hope i say!

TE50 027 · 23-06-2008, 02:18 PM

On a recent work trip I got to get to drive an '07 Camry Altise from Sydney to Nowra and an '07 Corolla Ascent for the return trip (both hire cars, both autos.) As has already been said here the Camry felt really gutless through the hilly areas and struggled to maintain the speed limit even after it dropped a number of gears. The Corolla actually scared me at some points on the way back. I fail to see how a car that gets overtaken by 50+ ton trucks travelling in the truck only lane can sell in such big numbers. I have never wished I had my own car so much before.

On the other hand, my old man has an '03 Corolla Levin manual. It's a great little car, is great around town and handles the long highway drives easily. I think he's a little disillusioned though as he claims it eats a same year SS onto the highway. My only criticism is the massive blind spot being the back window, you can see bugger all.

I think as a rule, if you're buying a Corolla for more than just daily city driving then it would be wise to get a up specced manual as the base models and autos are crap.

antony101 · 23-06-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

It's no secret that when it comes to a car that offers balance of cost, power, comfort and style, the Camry and Corolla are way, way down in their respective classes.

It's no secret that I dislike Toyota for this reason.

A friend of mine has a Mazda 3 and loves it to death. Loves the body, interior, gearbox and how it goes, even though it isn't anything special. His parents have a Camry, so he considered the Corolla, and told me that while the Corolla has a good name, it wasn't a nice car to drive.

If I get a ride for tennis with my team mate, it's in a Corolla. He swears by Toyotas.
The interior of the XF (17-18 year difference) is nicer and the seats are like wooden church pews. I've never had the 'pleasure' of driving a Corolla, but for me, interior and comfort are of major importance to me.

I love the interior of the FG and I hope that everybody looking at a car in its class gives the Falcon serious consideration.

the 3's interior is nice - but they burn oil - i could not believe it! Also they rattle and my girls car only has 7000 odd kms on it.

Will not be getting another mazda. Just superficial not quality.