Cars and the future.......

dave289 · 13-12-2009, 03:32 PM

I remember when I was in year 12 at school in 1988(ah the good ol days) and buying the lastest copy of wheels or motor magazine.(yes I used to also traul the the trading post at that age dreaming of something great for me to one day buy). anyway I remember the ea falcon had just come out and not long after was the vn commodore. Both cars at the time had advanced greatly over the previous model .For the first time they both had standard 4 wheel disk brakes on the base model. They both had fuel injection and power steer ,electric mirrors (ALTHOUGH THESE WERE,NT FIRSTS). I thought to myself that it seems like what other advancements are there for cars , to which I thought well there does,nt really seem to be that much .boy was I wrong , I cannot even think of all the advancements that they now have 20 years later.

Question is ,what can I expect in the next 20 or so years. to my current thinking I now expect to be driving an electric car and expect most others will to. sure I,ll keep my 67 xr v8 ,and if I can still buy petrol will hopefully take it out on occasions(may need to stock up like mad max). Now I really dont like the idea of and electric car anymore than the next ford forum average member does, but as I look in the dec issue of motor magazine( am I still buying these things) I come across a car called the Audi E-Tron( a car it seems I would be not only be very happy to own and drive but something to be proud of.
It is basically an r8 based plug in car that audi plans to make a production reality(IF ANYONE HAS SOME PICS, POST AWAY). It looks like not only something from the future but also something from the past ( a little bit like the effijy, which is one holden I would kill for)anyway it puts out 233 kw and 4500 nm of talk .yes thats right 4500nm- which they say needs to be scaled back drastically so that full acceleration does,nt peel the tread of the tyres. so it seems things may not be all that bad. so what do you expect to see from cars in the future and would you drive an electric car?

just to drag things on even more(sorry), my mates audi s5 has a fob which you leave in your pocket ,the cars opens automatically when you approach ,you just sit, press a button and she starts up, no keys ,nothing ,then a button to stop, he then gets out walks away and it locks when he is about a few meteres away. I wondered if we could expect that on a falcon or commi before too long.this guy I know had same set up on his toyota sportivo which is cheaper than most falcons.or one step further was the r8 which I was told had finger print recognition to start the car.

Franco Cozzo · 13-12-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave289

I remember when I was in year 12 at school in 1988(ah the good ol days) and buying the lastest copy of wheels or motor magazine.(yes I used to also traul the the trading post at that age dreaming of something great for me to one day buy). anyway I remember the ea falcon had just come out and not long after was the vn commodore. Both cars at the time had advanced greatly over the previous model .For the first time they both had standard 4 wheel disk brakes on the base model. They both had fuel injection and power steer ,electric mirrors(ALTHOUGH THESE WERE,NT FIRSTS). I thought to myself that it seems like what other advancememnts are there for cars , to which I thought well there does,nt really seem to be that much .boy was I wrong , I cannot even think of all the advancements that they now have 20 years later. Question is ,what can I expect in the next 20 or so years. to my current thinking I now expect to be driving an electric car and expect most others will to. sure I,ll keep my 67 xr v8 ,and if I can still buy petrol will hopefully take it out on occasions(may need to stock up like mad max). Now I really dont like the idea of and electric car anymore than the next ford forum average member does, but as I look in the dec issue of motor magazine( am I still buying these things) I come across a car called the Audi E-Tron( a car it seems I would be not only be very happy to own and drive but something to be proud of. It is basically an r8 based plug in car that audi plans to make a production reality(IF ANYONE HAS SOME PICS, POST AWAY). It looks like not only something from the future but also something from the past ( a little bit like the effijy, which is one holden I would kill for)anyway it puts out 233 kw and 4500 nm of talk .yes thats right 4500nm- which they say needs to be scaled back drastically so that full acceleration does,nt peel the tread of the tyres. so it seems things may not be all that bad. so what do you expect to see from cars in the future and would you drive an electric car? just to drag things on even more(sorry), my mates audi s5 has a fob which you leave in your pocket ,the cars opens automatically when you approach ,you just sit, press a button and she starts up, no keys ,nothing ,then a button to stop, he then gets out walks away and it locks when he is about a few meteres away. I wondered if we could expect that on a falcon or commi before too long.this guy I know had same set up on his toyota sportivo which is cheaper than most falcons.or one step further was the r8 which I was told had finger print recognition to start the car.

Give it 5 years and you'll probably start seeing a lot of this stuff filter down into Ford/Holden, like the key thingo.

Rev28K · 13-12-2009, 05:25 PM

Electric motors have massive torque from low speeds so acceleration should be good if the car has some form of Continuously Variable Transmission. Unless there are jumps in the way power is produced the world looks as if nuclear is one of the “green” options for producing clean power cheaply.

I’d like to see battery technology take a jump up so that they use less nasty innards and quick re-charging and the electric motors in the wheels get smaller/lighter so there is less unsprung weight.

If all of this happens there will be less need for LSD’s, much greater freedom with packaging, and transmission splitting left/right and fore/aft.

I’d love to have a small light car with a large amount of torque in 20 years time. A 2WD Tesla Mk 10 or a Fisker Mk 8 weighing 650-700kg with the weight carried very low would do me.

burnz · 13-12-2009, 05:36 PM

well you've allready got tesler..http://www.teslamotors.com/
but i keep thinking along the lines of demolition man "movie"

but ill miss the V8 burble when we are forced to drive battery jobs.

Spudz27 · 13-12-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

well you've allready got tesler..http://www.teslamotors.com/
but i keep thinking along the lines of demolition man "movie"

but ill miss the V8 burble when we are forced to drive battery jobs.

No you won't, there will be an attatchment you can add to give you the V8 rumble.

**SSD-85** · 13-12-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

No you won't, there will be an attatchment you can add to give you the V8 rumble.

Yeah, and it'll be an mp3 file built into the cars' stereo. And it will suck

:

burnz · 13-12-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

No you won't, there will be an attatchment you can add to give you the V8 rumble.

as in compact disk?? to drown out that jetson noise.

Franco Cozzo · 13-12-2009, 06:00 PM

I guess LPG will still be around, you can keep your old cars if you are that way inclined. I don't mind, as long as the car is fast and is manual lol.

chevypower · 13-12-2009, 06:21 PM

An article from 2006 on an electric Mini with 640HP, 3000Nm. It gets 80mpg when using fuel to charge the batteries. A waste in a Mini though, I don't think 3000Nm would see any difference in performance between a Mini or a truck - other than the truck will get a little bit more traction.
http://www.gizmag.com/go/6104/

JACK250 · 13-12-2009, 06:28 PM

I think I'll set up a moonshine still when that day comes and set up my car to run pure ethanol

BLDNUT01 · 13-12-2009, 06:35 PM

I remember watching Beyond 2000 and thinking how cool it would be with flying cars they lied to me

bigdude1011 · 13-12-2009, 06:43 PM

I'll wait until fuel cells have matured before I give up on the petrol, though an ol' skool Mercedes-Benz running on vegetable oil sounds good

prydey · 13-12-2009, 07:01 PM

there's a bit of a saying - if you want to know what technology your average car will have in 20yrs time, look at the current mercedes s class.

Rev28K · 13-12-2009, 07:04 PM

Geez, you guys are a bunch of Luddites!

Even though 1/2 of my cars are carby even I can see that there will be some benefits to this technology.

As much you love IC engines you just have to conceed how inefficent they are and how they are extremely good at generating wasted heat.

Rev28K · 13-12-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

there's a bit of a saying - if you want to know what technology your average car will have in 20yrs time, look at the current mercedes s class.

So the electrical problems that Holden has with their VE range mirrior the gremlins that afflicted the 1990's Mercedes W140 S class?

Paxton · 13-12-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACK250

I think I'll set up a moonshine still when that day comes and set up my car to run pure ethanol

It is easier than you think. :baby bott

**TUF_302** · 13-12-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

there's a bit of a saying - if you want to know what technology your average car will have in 20yrs time, look at the current mercedes s class.

Thats about right, the 67' merc i had was way ahead of its time, had 4 wheel disk brakes, power steering, IRS, fuel injection, the gearbox ever downchanged as you slowed, not sure what the technical term for that is lol

XR6_190 · 13-12-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

there's a bit of a saying - if you want to know what technology your average car will have in 20yrs time, look at the current mercedes s class.

Spot on, Mercedes Benz S class has always been well ahead of it's time, First mass produced car to have seat belt pre-tensioners, airbags, radar cruise control, fuel injection, the list goes on and on.

I think the next big moves will be in fuel consumption, and alternative fuels, the next big step in particular will be Hydrogen fuel cells.

dave289 · 13-12-2009, 08:13 PM

One other thing I was thinking was, will there even be any petrol or deisel powered cars (being new cars) available in 20 years time. and when should we expect to see the end of new petrol powerered cars. the more I think about it, it seems like it is not so far away now.

XR6_190 · 13-12-2009, 08:56 PM

I don't know about within 20 years, but most definitely in the next 45.

vztrt · 13-12-2009, 09:04 PM

Pure electric cars will be the future, but this wont be mainstream till they can sort out 3 main issues.

1. Get 5/600km out of 1 charge (Super capacitor batteries seem to be the way they are going)
2. Be able to charge a battery quickly (MIT has done this but it required 3 phase and lots of power)
3. Make the cars cheap, no one will change when they cannot afford it.

**SSD-85** · 13-12-2009, 09:07 PM

I think we will still be running on combustibles for a while yet. Just not petrol.

prydey · 13-12-2009, 09:12 PM

the current merc s class is running a hybrid system similar to the KERS (kinetic energy recovery system) used in F1.

they had a car that would brake automatically, using sensors etc to keep a safe distance from the object in front if it was moving or bring the car to a halt if it was a stationary object.

they decided to give a demonstration in a factory and invited all the bigwigs etc. long story short, something failed and the car slammed into the wall... woops. red faces that day. apparently being inside the factory affected the sensors - so they claimed. not sure if that has been developed further.

i know they have 'seeing' headlights and stuff now.

Yellow_Festiva · 13-12-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Pure electric cars will be the future, but this wont be mainstream till they can sort out 3 main issues.

1. Get 5/600km out of 1 charge (Super capacitor batteries seem to be the way they are going)
2. Be able to charge a battery quickly (MIT has done this but it required 3 phase and lots of power)
3. Make the cars cheap, no one will change when they cannot afford it.

1) Why would you need that sort of range?

A range of 150-200km would cover most (90%?) of the populations needs for general personal transport.

2) Define quickly? How many of us drive a car to work, then park it in roughly the same spot where it sits for 6-8 hours? How many hours a night does your car sit in the garage? Again, a quick charge (say 30 min for 80% capacity) will be a great idea for people taking an extended trip, but not needed for 90% of the population.

3) Fully agree on that one. If I could get a new car in petrol for say 20 grand, and a similar 100% electric car that had a range of say 200km for the same price I would go electric.

Charging infrastructure is a large problem, but easily solved. Perhaps add coin opperated / timed recharge parking bays anywhere where the general public parks for any length of time. (Shopping centres, fast food places, larger petrol stations, parking stations etc).

The idea of using electric for short distance land travel is easy enough to implement.. we should be adopting this sooner rather than later to save our oil for OS air travel and bulky goods transport, where I can't see electric being able to replace liquid fuel..

Cheers,

Jason

trippytaka · 13-12-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

well you've allready got tesler..http://www.teslamotors.com/
but i keep thinking along the lines of demolition man "movie"

but ill miss the V8 burble when we are forced to drive battery jobs.

Exactly what I was going to say!

VIDEO OF TESLA

vztrt · 13-12-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

1) Why would you need that sort of range?

A range of 150-200km would cover most (90%?) of the populations needs for general personal transport.

2) Define quickly? How many of us drive a car to work, then park it in roughly the same spot where it sits for 6-8 hours? How many hours a night does your car sit in the garage? Again, a quick charge (say 30 min for 80% capacity) will be a great idea for people taking an extended trip, but not needed for 90% of the population.

3) Fully agree on that one. If I could get a new car in petrol for say 20 grand, and a similar 100% electric car that had a range of say 200km for the same price I would go electric.

Charging infrastructure is a large problem, but easily solved. Perhaps add coin opperated / timed recharge parking bays anywhere where the general public parks for any length of time. (Shopping centres, fast food places, larger petrol stations, parking stations etc).

The idea of using electric for short distance land travel is easy enough to implement.. we should be adopting this sooner rather than later to save our oil for OS air travel and bulky goods transport, where I can't see electric being able to replace liquid fuel..

Cheers,

Jason

Ok, the reason for the long range is to match a normal petrol car and to reduce frequent charging. So many charges will be a drain, especially during the day. So getting a good range is important.

Quick charge would be 5/10mins...the same as putting petrol in the car.

Electric drive already exists in mining trucks, the capacity of the batteries isn't there.

For me personally until my three points are covered I would go LPG for cheap transport.

DayTE · 13-12-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

1) Why would you need that sort of range?

A range of 150-200km would cover most (90%?) of the populations needs for general personal transport.

2) Define quickly? How many of us drive a car to work, then park it in roughly the same spot where it sits for 6-8 hours? How many hours a night does your car sit in the garage? Again, a quick charge (say 30 min for 80% capacity) will be a great idea for people taking an extended trip, but not needed for 90% of the population.

3) Fully agree on that one. If I could get a new car in petrol for say 20 grand, and a similar 100% electric car that had a range of say 200km for the same price I would go electric.

Charging infrastructure is a large problem, but easily solved. Perhaps add coin opperated / timed recharge parking bays anywhere where the general public parks for any length of time. (Shopping centres, fast food places, larger petrol stations, parking stations etc).

The idea of using electric for short distance land travel is easy enough to implement.. we should be adopting this sooner rather than later to save our oil for OS air travel and bulky goods transport, where I can't see electric being able to replace liquid fuel..

Cheers,

Jason

I tend to agree with the post you quoted. So here are a couple of my thought to answer your questions.

1. We have that sort of range in our vehicles now. A lot of people don't like going 'backwards'.

2. As quick as it takes to fill up a car now. Again, we don't want to be going backwards. And further to your post, there are a lot of tradies, service/repair people out there that are in their cars a lot during the working day. Taxi's, sales reps, etc.
It would be a hell of a long trip from Melbourne to Sydney if your car had only a 200km range with a min recharge time of 30 mins. Which of course most people wont be doing anyway, as you highlighted there a lot of people that don't need that sort of range anyway.

3. I agree as well. The cars are going to need to be affordable for the general population.

I also think the electric/hybrid vehicles are a temporary fix. Like XR6_190 mentioned, I think Hydrogen will be a longer term idea. Huge expense though.

trippytaka · 13-12-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

1) Why would you need that sort of range?

A range of 150-200km would cover most (90%?) of the populations needs for general personal transport.

2) Define quickly? How many of us drive a car to work, then park it in roughly the same spot where it sits for 6-8 hours? How many hours a night does your car sit in the garage? Again, a quick charge (say 30 min for 80% capacity) will be a great idea for people taking an extended trip, but not needed for 90% of the population.

3) Fully agree on that one. If I could get a new car in petrol for say 20 grand, and a similar 100% electric car that had a range of say 200km for the same price I would go electric.

Charging infrastructure is a large problem, but easily solved. Perhaps add coin opperated / timed recharge parking bays anywhere where the general public parks for any length of time. (Shopping centres, fast food places, larger petrol stations, parking stations etc).

The idea of using electric for short distance land travel is easy enough to implement.. we should be adopting this sooner rather than later to save our oil for OS air travel and bulky goods transport, where I can't see electric being able to replace liquid fuel..

Cheers,

Jason

What's the average to work these days? 25km or something like that... have a charging station at work andat the shops from these people: Better Place
Better Place

It's happening... I just hope we can get the infrastructure built, the green power there to supply the energy and the numbers of purchases (with subsidies) to make the technology affordable and so it can progress faster. What we need is people with the balls to make this happen and for society to take it on. Make it cheap, increase demand, build a new industry worth countless jobs.

MO · 13-12-2009, 10:21 PM

@yellow_festiva,easy to see you've never lived outside of the big smoke,you'll need more than 200klm range out of your electric car.

trippytaka · 13-12-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

@yellow_festiva,easy to see you've never lived outside of the big smoke,you'll need more than 200klm range out of your electric car.

Not for everyone, but there are some serious polluters in the affluent areas right on the city, all driving to work. Let's start with who can do it first and let the technology catch up.

*** EDIT: I live close enough to the city to make this a viable option. If it was economically viable, I'd do it.