380 Bosch Jobs to go

[mr smith]

More auto manufacturing bad news.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/austral...lbourne-plant/

[Jim Goose]

Was surprised to find my new Bosch alternator i got last year was made in china.... kinda sad when one of the best auto electrical parts supplier is also going down the china road.

[Resurrection]

They had no choice. Holden and Ford were squeezing them so hard that they couldn't compete with the locally manufactured products.

There is a remote chance that from 2015 a large FWD car will be imported from Thailand to replace an existing model.

[KIV]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

They had no choice. Holden and Ford were squeezing them so hard that they couldn't compete with the locally manufactured products.

Holden and Ford ceased to be major customers some years ago. Manufacturing overseas was cheaper than manufacturing local. But the overseas shift started a few years ago. First, it was Hungary, then China, and recently, Portugal and India. It's indeed a sad day for the biggest car parts supplier in Australia. If Bosch cannot survive here, other suppliers might as well throw in the towel.

[Struggo]

Sad indeed

Check ou the local timeline, http://www.bosch.com.au/content/lang...s/timeline.pdf

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

They had no choice. Holden and Ford were squeezing them so hard that they couldn't compete with the locally manufactured products.

There is a remote chance that from 2015 a large FWD car will be imported from Thailand to replace an existing model.

Not remote .. It'll happen

[munners]

As sad as this is, its a reality that happens not just in the automotive industry but in all aspects of manufactuirng and service.
I worked in the mining equipment sector. You would think that with all the money in mining that there would be plenty of room for profit. However as soon as one company outsources jobs from Australia to say China or India, the others have to follow. You may have to lose 50% of your workforce but its better than going bust and losing 100%.
Sadly consumers buy on price rather than qualtiy (look at Great Wall for example) and that doesn't look like changing any time soon.

Munners

[KIV]

Originally Posted by munners

Sadly consumers buy on price rather than qualtiy (look at Great Wall for example) and that doesn't look like changing any time soon.

Most consumers rather buy an acceptable quality product than pay a premium price for an excellent quality product. What's the point of paying $100 for a Bosch power tool when you can buy a lesser known brand for $25, use it for a couple of years and than buy another one when it breaks down. Bosch makes good automotive products, dishwashers, cooktops and washing machines. However, the same cannot be said for their fridges and gardening products.

[Qwikcorty]

when starting my apprenticeship there in 2001, there were approximately 2000 people there.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by munners

Sadly consumers buy on price rather than qualtiy (look at Great Wall for example) and that doesn't look like changing any time soon.
Munners

Mostly true. There are some people out there who will only buy Australian made if there is an Australian option. In some instances like auto parts there is only one supplier and it's not Australian. When it comes to foodstuffs and other household items including furniture I will not buy it unless it is Australian made.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by irish2

Mostly true. When it comes to foodstuffs and other household items including furniture I will not buy it unless it is Australian made.

Funny you should say that as the company that I work for when bought out 6 years ago had a sister company manufacturing bedding. They had their own spring making machines and all springs were made here.

When it was sold the new owners closed the spring section down (with the loss of 38 jobs and nearly 650 years of experience, bloody multi national company) sent the machines to China and bought all springs from there (with untold problems to boot). We have just recently been bought out again but only the company that I am with and the 1 sister company by a NZ company. They have cancelled all current orders from China and are going to manufacture springs here in Australia. In their own words they will not be held to ransom by an overseas country with inferior products and unreliable deliveries.

Good on them I say.

[KIV]

Originally Posted by munners

However as soon as one company outsources jobs from Australia to say China or India, the others have to follow.

The main reason for outsourcing to other countries is labour cost. I believe that overtime cost is a major contributor. Picture this. If you know that weekend overtime is certain, what would you do during weekdays? You would do as little as possible during weekdays and get time and-a-half or double overtime doing weekend work. Employees, management and the union are all to blame. Employees for having this inefficiency mindset, management for allowing overtime and not addressing how work could be completed on weekdays, and the union for not inculcating in their members to be more efficient and working with management to achieve it.

[KIV]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Funny you should say that

In the 90s, a local subsidiary of a multi-national company thought it was a good idea to spend millions of dollars to get rid of more than 100 employees and transfer equipment and manufacturing to an Asian subsidiary. After a couple of years of production and plagued with many quality and delivery problems from the Asian subsidiary, the company realised that the wrong decision had been made to transfer equipment and manufacturing. That company ended up spending money to buy equipment to set up the line again and hiring new people, who were not as skilled as the ones they retrenched.

[KIV]

Bosch wants to hire 24,000 in China

http://www.iol.co.za/business/intern...hina-1.1046132

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by munners

As sad as this is, its a reality that happens not just in the automotive industry but in all aspects of manufactuirng and service.

Yep, and get used to it because this is the tip of the iceberg.

It was already bad for Australian manufacturing and now that we have some lying cow who wants a carbon tax, this type of “job relocating” will be more common.

So who’s to blame? The red haired clown or the people who voted for her?

[Bobman]

I hope the day comes when Chinese people stand up for themselves for once and demand better pay over there, so all the greedy companies here and in the USA come crawling back and begging for their staff to come and work again.

[munners]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I hope the day comes when Chinese people stand up for themselves for once and demand better pay over there, so all the greedy companies here and in the USA come crawling back and begging for their staff to come and work again.

This is an interesting point and one that will have a massive global impact. I have read that as soon as China starts to push up prices, other countries like Sri Lanka for example, will come into play as they will undercut the Chinese. This is already happennig to some degree.

The problem with all this is that once a job/industry leaves Australia, in the majority of cases it is unlikely it will ever come back. Once the demand dies, the workers move into other fields, the suppliers aren't there anymore because they've either closed ot gone into something else and it all becomes too hard to re establish. Meanwhile the other country has lifted their quality and production levels and start to dominate the market. Better products at cheaper prices. Japanese stuff used to be seen as rubbish and American was high quality.

Times change.

Munners

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I hope the day comes when Chinese people stand up for themselves for once and demand better pay over there, so all the greedy companies here and in the USA come crawling back and begging for their staff to come and work again.

Originally Posted by munners

This is an interesting point and one that will have a massive global impact. I have read that as soon as China starts to push up prices, other countries like Sri Lanka for example, will come into play as they will undercut the Chinese. This is already happennig to some degree.

The Chinese people standing up for themselves, to a point but in an industrial sense, it will most likely never happen. I think they tried something similar in 1989 about democracy and the government’s way of solving the problem was by running over students with tanks. Oh, sorry, my mistake. The boffins running China said that never happened.

Even if they tried something like demanding better pay and conditions, who would lose out in this? The consumer and who would that be?

Remember when BHP and RIO jacked up the price of iron ore, China raised the wholesale price of steel and the cycle continues. Meanwhile the poor buggers slaving their guts out over there aren’t really any better off.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Yep, and get used to it because this is the tip of the iceberg.

It was already bad for Australian manufacturing and now that we have some lying cow who wants a carbon tax, this type of “job relocating” will be more common.

So who’s to blame? The red haired clown or the people who voted for her?

She said there would never be a carbon tax while she was PM, so the voters could only assume she would keep her word, but I guess you can't assume a pollie will tell the thruth.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

She said there would never be a carbon tax while she was PM, so the voters could only assume she would keep her word, but I guess you can't assume a pollie will tell the thruth.

this is true, non of them pollies could lie straight in bed, its sad when the criteria of voting is you have to guess which one won`t be quite as awful as the other one, very sad for bosch workers , i used to deliver bright steel on occasion to bosch in clayton, another mt warehouse in the making :(.
something that annoys me , Dick smith tried advertiseing for aussies to buy Australian manufactured goods and good on him he`s a patriot, why hell don`t our lazy pollies do anything in this regard? yes it may be pointless but they should try.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

, Dick smith tried advertiseing for aussies to buy Australian manufactured goods and good on him he`s a patriot, why hell don`t our lazy pollies do anything in this regard? yes it may be pointless but they should try.

Free Trade Agreements actually don't allow for this.

You know those FTA that all the political parties say are really good for the country. But then again I guess its easier for people to get in their soapbox and push their political agenda on here.

[FGII-XR6]

when you have workers here on say $20 an hour and slave labour of say 20c an hour in some of these countries this will continue. I think tarrifs should be introduced for goods from countries that don't pay reasonable wages this would level the playing field free trade agreements can be broken at the whim of any new government by stating this was never our ( the current governments) policy

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I hope the day comes when Chinese people stand up for themselves for once and demand better pay over there, so all the greedy companies here and in the USA come crawling back and begging for their staff to come and work again.

Why would the chinese need to stand up for themselves for better pay than any other person around the world. Whilst your average chinese worker may be earning $1 or $2 an hour, his barber, grocer, doctor etc etc will be earning probably in exact proportions to as we do in australia. If you want to get a $20 haircut, it probably pays to earn $20 an hour here, but if you want to get a $1 haircut in china, then you only need to earn $1 an hour.

1 barrel of oil is consumed in australia everyday for every 22 citizens, whereas in china its one barrel per 160 citizens. You start paying 1 billion chinese $20 an hour, and the price of petrol goes up to $10 a litre (in australia) if the world doesnt double crude oil production over night (and it hasnt been able to increase production since 2005).

Enjoy cheap chinese labour whilst you can, the alternatives (which we are going to see in the next few years), will make 2011 look good.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Why would the chinese need to stand up for themselves for better pay than any other person around the world. Whilst your average chinese worker may be earning $1 or $2 an hour, his barber, grocer, doctor etc etc will be earning probably in exact proportions to as we do in australia. If you want to get a $20 haircut, it probably pays to earn $20 an hour here, but if you want to get a $1 haircut in china, then you only need to earn $1 an hour.

Because no-where else in the world is there such a high percentage of exploitation and sweat shops. It doesn't matter if you can get a hair cut for $1. You can get hair cuts here for cheap as well. It makes no difference.

Things worked just fine before cheap Chinese labour came along. The world actually had more quality goods and more businesses around until people got greedy and shipped things overseas because labour was cheap. This cost jobs here, so we should not be supporting China as they took our jobs and gave us what? Poor quality & counterfeit goods.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Because no-where else in the world is there such a high percentage of exploitation and sweat shops. It doesn't matter if you can get a hair cut for $1. You can get hair cuts here for cheap as well. It makes no difference

alot of it comes down to cost of living and exchange rates. so many australians go to bali for holidays - why because it is so cheap over there. having been to the philippines, it is a similar deal - we feel like kings. the wages they are paid does reflect the cost of living
maybe if australians did not demand a pay rise every year - to be in the exact same situation 3 weeks after it, we would not have this problem. if i get a pay rise - my boss has to increase his prices to cover it. then the companies we supply to have to increase theirs and round and round it goes. we are not necessarily getting a fair wage compared to the asian countries - we have just priced ourselves out of the market. the silly thing is, i am getting paid heaps more than my grandfather in the 50's - and yet am i any better off for it; maybe, but in reality no. my wife and i both need to work to afford anything like he did - house, new car etc., so i would think we have priced ourselves out of the market

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Free Trade Agreements actually don't allow for this.

You know those FTA that all the political parties say are really good for the country. But then again I guess its easier for people to get in their soapbox and push their political agenda on here.

And this has been our undoing. We have signed up for these dodgy FTA's that are so heavily skewed in favour of other countries, particularly the USA. For at least a generation we have negotiated away just about every trading advantage we had.

When you think that in some cases we are obliged under some FTA's to buy in rubbish from OS that we can easily make/grow/produce here it makes me sick.

Drums of citrus pulp come in from Argentina while our citrus growers are ploughing their orchards into the ground........ I'm sure some dodgy FTA is behind that.

What happes when we get to the point where we can't even feed or clothe ourselves because nothing is grown or made here anymore??

And then theres the Carbon Tax which Joolia and her cohorts says is not actually a tax but works like a tax....... That'll push us further down a very bad path.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I hope the day comes when Chinese people stand up for themselves for once and demand better pay over there, so all the greedy companies here and in the USA come crawling back and begging for their staff to come and work again.

What about greedy consumers? People still have a choice (though a small one), in the end they buy whatever is cheapest. Even to the point of saving some money from buying their products online, which hurts the local economy, and in a lot of cases, cuts sales tax. We are paying a high price for it in the long run though, aren't we? Companies can only respond to consumer demands. People might verbalize a demand for domestic manufacturing and to support local businesses. But do they put their money where their mouths are? Obviously not.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by chevypower

What about greedy consumers? People still have a choice (though a small one), in the end they buy whatever is cheapest. Even to the point of saving some money from buying their products online, which hurts the local economy, and in a lot of cases, cuts sales tax. We are paying a high price for it in the long run though, aren't we? Companies can only respond to consumer demands. People might verbalize a demand for domestic manufacturing and to support local businesses. But do they put their money where their mouths are? Obviously not.

Some do, and oddly enough a lot of Aussie goods are cheaper than the imported crap. Colgate mouthwash is made in Thailand and is more expensive by volume than Aussie made Listerine. Examples are also common for olive oil, cured meats, toothpaste, cheese, chocolate, fresh fruit and veg, and even motor oil (Nulon and Penrite). At my local fruit shop they have Aussie lemons and USA lemons. The Aussie lemons are cheaper, bigger, and better looking. You can even find Australian printed birthday cards at competitive prices.

[irish2]

Oh I also forgot to mention car care. Bowdens own is Aussie made, engineered and tested.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

So who’s to blame? The red haired clown or the people who voted for her?

Technically we didn't vote for them, 3 independants did.