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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,699
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Ok guys I am going to preface this by saying that if I am in the wrong then it is only fair to pay the fine.
A couple of weeks ago we were heading to Adelaide along the Sturt Hwy. In the victorian section I got pulled up for speeding in an 80 zone with an alleged speed of 89 (detected speed 91). At the time I thought nothing of it and just accepted it and just assumed I missed the sign. I remember seeing an 80 ahead sign but not the actual 80 sign. Anyway the next day (it was a quick trip) we were heading back through the same spot and had a bit of a joke about where we were pulled up, but then I had a closer look. Try and keep track of the distances. Where I was pulled up we could see an 80 sign probably 20-30m ahead of us. Like I said I just assumed there was a sign further back up the road that I missed. Which there was but there was only around 100m between the two 80 signs (I stepped it out). Now as I was originally coming up to the 80 zone I saw an 80 ahead sign and started to slow which can be sign by my detected speed (the Sturt is a 110 zone). Then I come around a corner and see the police car on the side of the road. It seemed like straight after I saw him he was out of the car and pointing for me to pull over. He would have been about 100m ahead of me. As I drove past him I thought that it was odd but pulled over probably 50m past him. He got in his car, turned around and drove up to me at which point he issued the fine. So if you have been following the distances I am not sure I was actually in an 80 zone when he was out of his car directing me to stop. I assume that I must have been if he was sitting on the side of the road waiting but the distances just don't seem to add up to me. I know he was ahead of me when he directed me to stop and I know the second 80 sign was ahead of me by the time I stopped. So basically should I just pay the fine and move on? The only other options I see are to write a letter to ask for an offical warning, which involves admitting guilt or write a letter asking for an internal review however I can't see how I can prove that I may not have been in the 80 zone. I don't see taking it to court as an option as I assume I would have to travel to Victoria to contest it. Anyway should I just pay it? Its only $153 but its the principle of the matter if I wasn't speeding. I have only ever had 1 other speeding fine since I got my licence in 1998. |
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#2 | ||
Awesome
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In my own little world..Everyone here knows me :)
Posts: 9,401
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I am not sure what the actual distance is between an 80ahead sign and the actual 80 area.
Did you lose any demerits?
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#3 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,699
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Sorry, I don't think I explained it well.
There were two 80 speed zone signs which were about 100m apart. When I came to a stop the second one was still about 20-30m ahead of me. So where I stopped was only about 70-80m into the 80 zone. I guess I didn't see the first one because I was looking at the police car. I would only be guessing but the 80 ahead sign would have been around 1km before the 80 zone. It was back around a corner. I will only lose 1 demerit point. |
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#4 | ||
Awesome
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In my own little world..Everyone here knows me :)
Posts: 9,401
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I am not too sure how the law works on this one but my understanding was, you have - up to - the sign to reach the speed limit of the sign.
As for your question, personally I would just pay the fine.
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,838
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Have you had any other infringments in the last three years?
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#6 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,699
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The only other speeding fine I have had was in June 2008 (<15km/h over the speed limit back then). The only other fine I have had was for not displaying P plates which would have been back in 1999.
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#7 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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So let's see if I understand this, you passed one 80 limit sign and were then pulled up 20-30m before the second? If you went past 1 80 limit sign you were in an 80 zone and therefore speeding. If the first sign was a 80 ahead sign and you were pulled up 20-30m in front if the limit sign, you were not in an 80 zone.
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#8 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,699
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I went past 80 ahead sign and started slowing. Went around a corner and saw cop car probably 100m ahead with policeman indicating to stop but didn't see first sign. Drove probably 50m past police car and stopped with the second sign about 20-30m ahead.
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#9 | ||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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i think i see what the op is meaning, hes stopped 20-30 metres before the 2nd sign, meaning the copper has most likely detected his speed before the first sign, ie still the 110 zone.
was it incar radar, or a laser gun? laser must be held on your car for a minimum 3 seconds for an accurate reading. 3 seconds travelling at circa 90kmh would easily place you outside the 80 zone when he started to laser you. good luck proving anything in court though, if its just one point id not worry about it and pay it. |
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#10 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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Quote:
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#11 | ||
Sling Shot
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canberra
Posts: 444
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From my understanding, you where pulled over in-between the 80-ahead sign and the actual 80 sign. If you are 100% sure of this, definitely contest it.
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#12 | |||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Quote:
i think he stopped between the 80 ahead and the second 80 sign... everything hinges on where the first 80 sign is, and where the copper signalled him to pull over. |
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#13 | ||
Making superman jealous
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bondi
Posts: 1,323
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Mate if you have a spare day to go to court I would fight it.
Might be worthwhile to try and get hold of the guidelines of where the speed traps are spose to be, to me that seems very wrong catching you just past an 80 sign. I got done once years ago by this fat ginger copper who obvs got beat up every day of his school life and now he was taking his vengeance by being a hwy patrol officer anyway clocked me for doing 67 less than 30 or so meters into a 60 zone stepped out in front of my car and only just was able to stop for him too, i wonder if it would be my fault if i hit him. I was working 7 days a week back than so I just paid it. If you go to court and dont win sometimes they hit you up for court costs which is usually around $500
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#14 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
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Daniel |
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#15 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,536
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Quote:
at the end of the day, it will be your word against the cop so chances are it will be a lot of time and effort for little reward. i understand its the principle but is it really worth it? to me it sounds harsh as to his position but thats the way it is these days. they try to trap you any way they can. once upon a time i used to just cancel the cruise at the '80 ahead' sign and just coast down to the new limit but these days i use the brake pedal. coppers in the small country towns don't have much else to do ![]() |
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#16 | ||
Legend!!!
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 907
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So you got pulled over in the 80km ahead area but just before the actual 80km sign.
If thats the case I'd take some pics and go to court.
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#17 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
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You cant be pinged within 100m of a change of speed sign.
That is in thier own guidelines. If you were infact between the 2 80kmh signs, you shouldnt have been done. |
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#18 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Can't be done within 100 meters of a change of speed zone sign? Sure you can't...
![]() There's a sign like that on the Bruce Highway as you approach Marmor, and another as you come up to the Calliope road crossing...they first warn you of a change of speed zone ahead, and then the sign itself for the zone is further on. I've heard a few cases of people getting pulled up before a speed zone sign as the copper didn't believe you could have slowed down to that speed by the time you reached the sign. It's always been a big money earner to sit just past a speed sign at which the limit goes up...say leaving a town and the 100 sign is ahead...as some nupties actually believe stuff like "as long as the sign is in readable range you can start speeding up", and stuff like that... ![]() |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salamander Bay
Posts: 5,427
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if you were stoped 30 M before the second 80 sign and they were 100M apart it means you would have gone from 91 to 0 in 70 M including reaction time. It looks like a revenue trap to me, hoping you'll just pay and shut up. These type of fines need to be fought to show them we won’t put up with a stealth tax
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Everyone starts off with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the experience bag before the luck bag is empty. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Start a new career as a bus driver Rides: FG2 XR6 stock at this stage but a very nice ride xc 4 DOOR X CHASER 5.8 UNDER RESTO |
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#20 | ||
RAPID GT-P
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tumut nsw
Posts: 1,091
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I got robber once.. 230 or 330 and 3 points for driving threw a yellow light that only change yellow for like 2 seconds.. Naturally if I attempted to stop or would of been uncomfortable and objects on the back seat would of went flying! Get this the unmarked car behind me still went threw and there was another car next to me slightly behind me went threw aswell..
Cop went crook at me saying I could of caused an accident yet he was still able to follow me threw aswell! Either was I tried and I wrote a letter about it.. Didn't get off. I thought it was a bloody hefty fine and plus 3 points was bloody outrageous for what it was... Speeding fines /' demerit points aren't as harsh as that!
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#21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
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#22 | ||
RAPID GT-P
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tumut nsw
Posts: 1,091
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^^^^ Lol, I couldn't do that to my baby! He was unmarked, I was none the wiser. I just knew there was someone up my **** at the time.
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Full Difilippo big boy exhaust /4.5" body ballistic metal cats / boss 315 plenum & twin throttle body coupled to bpr airbox / powerbond underdrives / herrod 290 cams / malwood opt 3+ / hrs Pegasus rims 19x8.5 front - 9.5 rear / nitto invo 245-35-19F & 275-35-19R / whiteline swaybars/ Under bonnet bling / 4.11 harrop truetrac Enhanced by BLUEPOWER ![]() supercharged 363 dart takes on au work ute http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11342906 Last edited by SIMBAD; 28-11-2011 at 08:22 AM. |
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#23 | ||
moderator ford coupe club
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,640
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the problem is, you would need proof - if you are sure you were pinged in the 110kph area and their radar (or whatever they used to detect the speed) has a gps and therefore it can be proven where they were reading your speed, contest it
if you do not have any proof or they pinged you in the correct spot, then it might cost much more than it is worth |
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#24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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You have 300m after you pass the speed limit sign to slow down.
E.g. If you are in a 100 zone and enter a 80 zone you have 300m AFTER you pass the 80 sign to slow down to 80. Take it to court, open and shut case. AS 2898.1 – 2003 Radar speed detection – Functional requirements and definitions AS2898.2 – 2003 Radar speed detection – Operational procedures AS4691.1 – 2003 Laser-based speed detection devices – Definitions and device requirements AS4691.2 – 2003 Laser-based speed detection devices – Operational procedures Pretty well known standards especially by the police which makes me wonder if this was a trap on purpose and simply hoping you cop it on the chin like every motorist before you. As an aside you also have 100m BEFORE an increase in the speed limit sign to increase your speed, lose count of how many bozos you see wait until they actually reach the sign before speeding up. Last edited by Brazen; 28-11-2011 at 08:42 AM. |
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#25 | ||
Landau Tragic
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,094
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When you went back, did you actually see far behind the first 80 zone sign the copper was? Was he 10 metres behind it? 20? could you prove it with a picture? Reason i say is, doesn't there have to be a certain space for you to be pinged? Meaning that his radar catches you from a distance of say 100 metres away from him? I'd find out how far away from the radar you need to be in order to be detected, and then backtrack from there. If you can prove it, write a letter accordingly and mention that you will strongly consider court action and highlighting it with the media. If it fails? then your call from there if you fight it or pay it.
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#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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#27 | |||
Regular Schmuck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,640
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Quote:
What is actually on the ticket? Is their sufficient information about the location to prove that you were pinged between the two signs? (like a crossroad...) IMO, you certainly have grounds to contest it provided there's enough proof to pinpoint your location of where the ticket was given. |
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#28 | ||
Banana
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wandin North, VIC
Posts: 2,031
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My take on it is this;
You were pinged between the 80 ahead sign and the actual 80 zone sign, correct? You then pulled over within the 80 zone and issued the fine. The point here is that between the 80 ahead and the 80 zone it is still a 110 zone. I'd be contesting it too!! Also, a couple of points need clearing up. Court costs are nowhere near $500, they are closer to $50. You don't have 300m after a speed change to slow down, you must be doing the posted speed as you pass the sign. Lastly, get something like this in your car. For less than the cost of 1 fine it will prove exactly where you were on the road... ![]()
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#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Quote:
You cannot be issued a ticket for travelling at the speed you were at before the sign for a distance 300m. End of story. That is why we put the speed limit signs so far out of towns, why roadworkers put roadwork limits 300m before the roadworks etc. You are given 300m to do that speed. In respect to speed enforcement the 80 sign is saying '80kmh zone 300m ahead'. |
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#30 | |||
Banana
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wandin North, VIC
Posts: 2,031
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Quote:
"But...Your Honour...yes I was in an 80 zone but I'm still allowed to do 100 in an 80 zone for the first 300 metres of that zone..."
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