HWP NSW quota

[Robdogg]

Hold your breath and be prepared to be shocked and if you like your speed then you have been warned!!!! I was speaking to a mate of mine who had to go to court for a fine that his rental car picked up whilst in the possession of a customer. While he was at court dealing with the fine to be directed to the guilty red light running companies employee he was having a bit of a yarn/whinge to a HWP officer that was there and the officer said to him that when he starts his shift and after he's made an X amount of dollars while doing the rounds he sometimes shows some leniency to traffic offenders after making his X amount of dollars. Big deal you say or even who cares!! but what was the magic X amount this HWP officer makes before he even considers to show some leniency for minor traffic infringements??? Are you ready??? Seriously are you ready?? After he makes 10k during his shift you might get lucky with a warning and he told him it's basically easy to reach his quota every single time he's doing the rounds!!


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[The Monty]

SO you were speaking to a mate, who was talking to a guy who talked to a cop who said he has a quota of $10k a shift.

Sounds like very good quality first hand information you received there!

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by The Monty

SO you were speaking to a mate, who was talking to a guy who talked to a cop who said he has a quota of $10k a shift.

Sounds like very good quality first hand information you received there!

Lol classic



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[BHDOGS]

Every other job requires u to do a certain amount of work why should police be diffrent or do people want fat lazy cops waking around doing nothing

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Every other job requires u to do a certain amount of work why should police be diffrent or do people want fat lazy cops waking around doing nothing

WTF? You're saying that revenue is their main job now? I thought their job was to save lives and catch criminals?

Actually, looking at the NSW Police Force Motto - "Culpam Poena Premit Comes" which when translated means "Punishment Follows Closely Upon Crime". Whatever happened to meaningful mottos like "To Serve and Protect".


Lukeyson

[cs123]

I suppose it's easy enough to work out if you take the total revenue earned, subtract the amount earned thorough cameras and divide this by the number of HWP officers and number of shifts worked.

If a HWP worked 200 shifts per year and had a $10K quota that would mean he is earning $2M/PA in revenue.

[ratter]

I was riding with a few policemen 3 weeks back and actually asked about whether a quota exists after somebody else had posted that it does. Their replies where NO, they are expected to get X amount of work done and this varies according to whether they have been called out to different jobs or just patrolling areas, when patrolling, it is generally accepted that they need to do a certain amount of work and generally they have statistics about certain areas at certain times and know what sort of numbers would indicate a policeman has actually been working rather than sitting around doing nothing, pretty much like an employee in any business

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

WTF? You're saying that revenue is their main job now? I thought their job was to save lives and catch criminals?

Trouble is they need to be evaluated against some sort of metric to see if they are doing their job.

If a HWP officer drove out every day and sat under a tree and wrote no tickets then he wouldn't be doing his job. If everyone in a district wrote 20 tickets per day and one guy wrote 5 then he is doing something less than the others.

It's just benchmarking....

[landau5.8]

Guys, you are looking at this all wrong. The Police Farce is an employment body just like any other and as such they have to meet KPI's. (Key Performance Indicators)

Hence, if they dont, they get called into meetings as to why and why not. Its not too hard. Its like every other business, they are there to make money first. Catch real criminals second.

[ratter]

the police do not make money!

[Glen 5150]

Quotas have been around forever. My Father was in the force for 35+ years and used to tell me about them from when I was a young bloke. He got no pleasure out of it, hated doing it when it was his turn, but sadly its reality. We all pay tax, I guess if we don't offend or if we're unlucky enough to get caught for minor or trivial infringements, well, we pay tax this way as well.

10K per shift does sound ridiculous and hard to believe though? That's $1250 per hour? Issuing tickets, talking to offenders, inspecting cars, doing rego and licence checks, driving to different locations, getting petrol, going to the toilet, having a break, the guy sounds like Superman.

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by Glen 5150

10K per shift does sound ridiculous and hard to believe though? That's $1250 per hour? Issuing tickets, talking to offenders, inspecting cars, doing rego and licence checks, driving to different locations, getting petrol, going to the toilet, having a break, the guy sounds like Superman.

Not really, in NSW fines add up quick, to get that figure, that's only issuing 5 x 10k over speeding tickets in an hour, or 4 unrestrained (no seatbelt) tickets an hour.
Combine 1 or 2 speeding fines with 1 or 2 no seat belts & you've got your hours work done in 20 mins.
Just think if they targeted tailgating & not keeping left out on the highways, they'd have their daily shift quota done in a couple of hours.

[Glen 5150]

Originally Posted by cobramania

Not really, in NSW fines add up quick, to get that figure, that's only issuing 5 x 10k over speeding tickets in an hour, or 4 unrestrained (no seatbelt) tickets an hour.
Combine 1 or 2 speeding fines with 1 or 2 no seat belts & you've got your hours work done in 20 mins.
Just think if they targeted tailgating & not keeping left out on the highways, they'd have their daily shift quota done in a couple of hours.

Hmm ok, Yeah i've got no doubt the sums would add up, I just find it hard to believe an individual officer would have time to issue them all in that time period, and still have time to do everything else. I can understand one manning a radar gun, and 1 or 2 issuing the tickets though. The last time I was pulled up was for allegedly using a mobile phone whilst driving and the whole process took around 15 minutes, after checking phone, licence and rego verification and quick vehicle inspection. I didn't get a ticket either. So theres 15 minutes and $300 they had to make up on someone else.

I take your point though, it is possible on some occasions perhaps.

[new2ford]

The ex HWP policeman who wrote to the current issue of Wheels said the same thing.

[tweeked]

So they are measured by this, which explains why they sit in the safest areas with a speed limit thet is lower than it should be, which naturally has the largest amount of "speeders" (people who are over an arbitrary limit - not people who are driving dangerously)

I wish the same couple of posters could just admit that this system could be better if it was actually targetted at danger -not this moronic "just stay under the limit" mantra

It is not the HWP officers fault - if they do not target the easy pickings, the idiots in charge would measure them as poor performers.

If you use revenue as the measurement - you do not get safety as the result

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by tweeked

So they are measured by this, which explains why they sit in the safest areas with a speed limit thet is lower than it should be, which naturally has the largest amount of "speeders" (people who are over an arbitrary limit - not people who are driving dangerously)

I wish the same couple of posters could just admit that this system could be better if it was actually targetted at danger -not this moronic "just stay under the limit" mantra

It is not the HWP officers fault - if they do not target the easy pickings, the idiots in charge would measure them as poor performers.

If you use revenue as the measurement - you do not get safety as the result

Nail - Hammer = HIT !

Spot on Jon ...

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

WTF? You're saying that revenue is their main job now? I thought their job was to save lives and catch criminals?

Actually, looking at the NSW Police Force Motto - "Culpam Poena Premit Comes" which when translated means "Punishment Follows Closely Upon Crime". Whatever happened to meaningful mottos like "To Serve and Protect".


Lukeyson

Hwps job is to enforce the law which requires giving out tickets or arresting people whateva the situation calls for to crap on about them just sitting under trees and revenue raising just dumbs down these people who choose to put there lives on the line to make a diffrence and I'm Frankly sick of it go get the job yourself and make a diffence otherwise become an mp and change the laws till then spitting **** on a forum Ain't gonna help use

[EDManual]

The HWP cops are the dumb ones, that what cop mates of mine say... they are the ones that go nowhere. No hopers...

[ratter]

and most here will say the holden lovers are the dumb ones!

many HWP police have an interest in vehicles themselves which is why they head in that area and many branches of the force have people that regularly move form one to the other, basically changing jobs but staying with the one employer

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Every other job requires u to do a certain amount of work why should police be diffrent or do people want fat lazy cops waking around doing nothing

How about non-financial indicators of work? like number of RBTs or vehicles pulled over. why is the only indicator the amount of money they can make for the government?

[cobramania]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

How about non-financial indicators of work? like number of RBTs or vehicles pulled over. why is the only indicator the amount of money they can make for the government?

Isn't the job description for HWP to stop people breaking the law & to pull over & punish (fine) those who do?

If there was enough of them out there patrolling up & down the highways, & they were doing their job, they would be pulling over very few people & making very little revenue, as their job to slow people down & make them law abiding would be successfully achived. The HWP's job is to sit in their cars & PATROL the Highways.

After all, the JOB of speed cameras are to stop people speeding & reduce road deaths & injuries (or so we're told & led to believe). HWP officers are only moving human versions of speed cameras.

A revenue quota, does nothing to improve road safety, nor indicate the job performance of the said officers. If anything, it indicates the failure of the said HWP divisions performance, on carrying out their jobs successfully.

[XY Chaser]

Having been a member of the NSW HWP for 10 yrs until recently retiring I can assure you there are NO QUOTA'S and never has been. At no time in my career was I pressured to write X amount of tickets or lockup X amount of people. At times I would drive 500km in a day and detect no one deserving of an infringement. Other days I would write 15 - 20 infringements, whether they were speeds, belts or phones. No one likes being stopped and told they have done something wrong, 95% of people I dealt with were pleasant and accepting of the fact. The other 5% would argue black and blue, no matter how blatant the offence. It's just the way it is. I averaged 100 infringements a month and probably 10 charges (PCA, Disq driver, etc). In the last 4 years I never went to Court once. It's been an old wives tale now for donkey's years that there is a quota. Also for information, Police have nothing to do with speed camera's in NSW they are controlled by the RMS and are private contractors.

[BHDOGS]

That ends this thread no more debate needed

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by EDManual

The HWP cops are the dumb ones, that what cop mates of mine say... they are the ones that go nowhere. No hopers...

The WA Commissioner is ex traffic, shot down in flames.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by teal2v

Having been a member of the NSW HWP for 10 yrs until recently retiring I can assure you there are NO QUOTA'S and never has been.

So what do you say about your mate who wrote in Wheels magazine that there are quotas? Perhaps do you think that some commands had quotas and some didn't then?

I'm not taking sides here, just like to know whether there are or not.

[69XWGT]

No Quotas and pigs fly.













It's called Polair.

Sister in law is in Traffic and she gets a please explain if she doesn't write enough

[XY Chaser]

Police are only human. When they get an infringement for 'whatever' there generally even more upset than the general population. They then run down their own colleagues for doing the job their paid to do. I would hear it all the time. Before I went into HWP I already had 20 yrs 'in the job' in G.D's. No one complains more about the HWP than a policeman who gets a ticket. They don't like it and they would rather run down the bloke doing his job, than step back and look at themselves. I worked in the Sydney metro area and out in the country on HWP and there were no quota's. I can't take it any further than that.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by teal2v

I worked in the Sydney metro area and out in the country on HWP and there were no quota's. I can't take it any further than that.

Do you think there's "overpolicing" on roads in this country. I've lived in Europe several times, most recently for 6 months last year, and I'd have to say the visibility of road policing over there is minimal - and yet the road toll rates are proportionally very little different from Australia.

In that time last year, I only saw one radar unit out pulling people over - in Austria (a country which is a little bit nannyish, like Australia!). The rest of the time, the police cars you see are very plain silver VWs or Skodas with one or two aerials and people overtake them nonchalantly because they know the police are only interested in really stupid road behaviour.

Here, we have the whole paramilitary show, with lurid-coloured cars bristling with aerials and everybody paranoid and jumpy and suddenly slowing to a crawl about 20 below the limit every time they see one. I think somebody on this forum recently joked that they were driving in Europe and instinctively hit the brakes when they saw a police car, until they realised that everybody was flying past it and it wasn't Australia and there was nothing to worry about!

Are the law enforcers here making ordinary law-abiding citizens think they are criminals, even when they might have decades of safe driving behind them? Instead of fostering safe driving, are we turning road-users into dumbed-down idiots, just looking at speed signs and nothing else and afraid to take any independent initiative (such as briefly exceeding the speed limit to safely clear a potentially dangerous obstacle quickly)? I won't go on, it's all been discussed before on this forum.

After 40 years' driving I can only observe that in Australia the medicine isn't curing the illness, it's making it worse. Never in that time have I seen so much stupid thoughtless driving as now. Is this what HWP really seeks to encourage?

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by new2ford

............

Are the law enforcers here making ordinary law-abiding citizens think they are criminals, even when they might have decades of safe driving behind them? Instead of fostering safe driving, are we turning road-users into dumbed-down idiots, just looking at speed signs and nothing else and afraid to take any independent initiative (such as briefly exceeding the speed limit to safely clear a potentially dangerous obstacle quickly)? I won't go on, it's all been discussed before on this forum.

After 40 years' driving I can only observe that in Australia the medicine isn't curing the illness, it's making it worse. Never in that time have I seen so much stupid thoughtless driving as now. Is this what HWP really seeks to encourage?

I have noticed the same thing in Europe compared to here.
And the idiotic "every K over is a killer" mantra rammed down the public's throat (translates to 61kph in a 60kph zone is a murderous insanity) is just to make you feel you are a criminal and deserve it when you're booked for a couple of K's over.

And tealv2, there may not have been a quota when and where you were working, but I was told by a large Qld country town Senior Sargeant back in the 80's that his district had a quota of $50k per month.

[xxx000]

Too many clowns on here who believe urban myths.
HWP don't have quotas for speeding tickets. They have lots of different jobs to do in a shift: man road closures, RBT, attend prangs, etc. They are also often first on scene to hold up up alarms, fatalities, etc.

Believe the BS in Wheels magazine if you like and the alleged letters from hwp cops they publish or deal in facts. I prefer facts and I know and deal with HWP cops daily