Legal advice needed for re-birthed fpv tyhpoon

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 04:25 PM

Hi all, long time forum stalker, first time poster. As the topic States, im looking for a lawyer or someone that specialises/has had expierience in car re-birthing. I'm sure people will have lots of questions and it is a very long story so without going into too much detail, I got stung and bought a re-birthed car and it has been taken off me by the nswp. The person it was stolen from was paid out by the insurance policy so it's now owned by the Nrma. I have quite a bit of money in this car including a new engine and at the moment it's looking like I'll loose it all....hence the reason I'm after some solid legal advice.

Thanks for any help that anyone can give ! Once this is all sorted hopefully I'll have my car back and I'll have to properly introduce myself !

blackf6 · 28-09-2014, 04:26 PM

Go and talk to a lawyer buddy.

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teak81

Go and talk to a lawyer buddy.

I definitely will be mate, unfortunately the few I have called sound like they have no idea and I had to explain what re-birthing was to one. That's why I was asking here in the hopes someone has dealt with this situation before or can recommend a lawyer.

xxx000 · 28-09-2014, 04:30 PM

Not your car so you won't get it back

LG17 · 28-09-2014, 04:37 PM

The only way you have any chance of recompense is if you bought it through a licenced motor dealer.

Auslandau · 28-09-2014, 04:40 PM

Unfortunately ..... XXX is correct. It isn't your car. It stinks I know. Lots get caught up in these. Buy a stolen car unsuspecting but it does belong to someone else and most of the time it is the insurance company or original owner.

By all means though as it might be worth it, get it from the horses mouth for a solicitor. Any would do as it is something that wouldn't be a too specialised area.

NX74205 · 28-09-2014, 04:45 PM

As others have said, you will not get the car back, notwithstanding any money you may have spent on it. The car was never yours nor was it ever the seller's either.

You may have a cause of action against the seller to recover some money, but I doubt you'll get it all back. You'll need to speak to a lawyer about that.

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 04:46 PM

Yeah everyone I have talked to has told me the same, that the car will always go back to the original owner, in this case the insurance company, the only reason I haven't given up on it completely is because I have put an engine in it and want to atleast get that back. I purchased the car with a blown engine and put a new one in it, so if they want the car back I'd like my engine back and they can have a blown engine the same way I got it to begin with. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

I've actually asked to talk to the insurance company and even negotiate a price with them instead of them sending it to auction which they will do anyway. atleast that way my money isn't completely wasted even if I have to spend some more

LoudPipes · 28-09-2014, 05:11 PM

My brother had his car registered and stolen in NSW.

Eleven years later it was recovered, this was about eight years ago.

Rego records showed it had been owned by three people since it was stolen.

After it was stolen it was registered by two owners in Queensland.

The Police took the car from the third owner who tried to register it in NSW and gave it to the insurance company who in turn asked my brother if he’d like to buy the car back.

He declined and the car was sent to auction.

I can’t see why the insurance company wouldn’t be willing to sell to you if you offered them a price similar to market value.

Though I doubt if the insurance company will allow you to remove or recoup any value you've put into their car.

ltd · 28-09-2014, 05:12 PM

Mate, as everyone has stated, the car was never yours or the sellers to begin with. I'd go after the seller, he should be charged with obtaining money by deception and being in possession of stolen goods. If you know who the seller is get all your paperwork from the sale and go down to the police station to file an incident report. This may also curry favour with the insurance company that you are the innocent party in this, and they might be more amenable to reaching an agreement with you for the sale of the stolen car.
Do you know who the seller is?
Was it a car yard or a private sale? If not was it done at the sellers home?

**tut0r** · 28-09-2014, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Mate, as everyone has stated, the car was never yours or the sellers to begin with. I'd go after the seller, he should be charged with obtaining money by deception and being in possession of stolen goods. If you know who the seller is get all your paperwork from the sale and go down to the police station to file an incident report. This may also curry favour with the insurance company that you are the innocent party in this, and they might be more amenable to reaching an agreement with you for the sale of the stolen car.
Do you know who the seller is?
Was it a car yard or a private sale? If not was it done at the sellers home?

Agreed! Best course of action like you have done is contact NRMA and see if something can be worked out, also at this point I would be hunting down the guy who sold it to you to see if he was indeed innocent or the one who stole it and chasing him up for the money through court if you cannot get the car back from NRMA...

Either way file an incident report against the seller/car yard as you don't want this biting you in the ***, be as proactive as possible and keep searching for lawyers who actually know what you're talking about.

Goodluck mate, sorry to hear must be a really **** situation to be in.

BENT_8 · 28-09-2014, 05:23 PM

Talk to the insurance company.
Explain the engine change, did you get it re registered with the new engine number?
If so, and you have proof of purchase of the replacement engine then you may be able to negotiate a purchase price, using your ownership of the motor as bargaining strength, for the vehicle based on market value for a non drivable(blown motor etc.) example.
All the insurance company will want is as much as they can recover with the least amount of hassle.

LoudPipes · 28-09-2014, 05:41 PM

When it comes to their profits, insurance companies can be cold but will usually take any reasonable amount offered as they often do with write-offs.

If they paid out on a vehicle that was in good working order when it was stolen they possibly won’t care who damaged it or repaired it after the fact.

That’s not their problem.

They definitely would not want the auction value decreased by having the motor pulled so your best bet is to try and buy the vehicle off them otherwise I see you losing out on all counts.

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

When it comes to their profits, insurance companies can be cold but will usually take any reasonable amount offered as they often do with write-offs.

If they paid out on a vehicle that was in good working order when it was stolen they possibly won’t care who damaged it or repaired it after the fact.

That’s not their problem.

They definitely would not want the auction value decreased by having the motor pulled so your best bet is to try and buy the vehicle off them otherwise I see you losing out on all counts.

this is the part the has me worried and thinking i may need a lawyer, they could turn around and just say get stuffed in regards to the engine, but surely i must have some right to it, again though im not sure, im really just hoping they want to sort it out quickly and pain free to re-coup some cash and that i dont get an ******* of an insurane rep that wants 30k for the wreck.

MNM96 · 28-09-2014, 06:53 PM

So, OP, who did you buy it from, did you get insurance, does your insurer cover you for a "stolen" car. REVS?

nstg8a · 28-09-2014, 07:05 PM

I would have thought if you have proof of purchase for the replacement motor then they would have to at least have that back? Otherwise aren't they basically stealing it off you?

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNM96

So, OP, who did you buy it from, did you get insurance, does your insurer cover you for a "stolen" car. REVS?

The car was purchased privately, I didn't have insurance on it but my understanding is that it wouldn't have mattered if I did anyway because it wasnt the vehicle it was said to be ? I didn't know that there are any insurance policy's that actually cover you for this sort of thing ? When I purchased the vehicle I was told that it wasn't a genuine typhoon and that it was just a replica. It had the complete typhoon driveline, bodykit and interior. The fact that is was a replica and had a dead engine meant it was going cheap another reason I thought It was a good deal, old saying of "if it's too good to be true, it is" comes to mind. I did 3 different revs checks and all came up clear saying it was a 2006 xt falcon which made sense because I was told from the start it was just a replica.

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Talk to the insurance company.
Explain the engine change, did you get it re registered with the new engine number?
If so, and you have proof of purchase of the replacement engine then you may be able to negotiate a purchase price, using your ownership of the motor as bargaining strength, for the vehicle based on market value for a non drivable(blown motor etc.) example.
All the insurance company will want is as much as they can recover with the least amount of hassle.

ive been asking the police to talk to the insurance comapny rep but they dont want to give me that info for some reason at the moment, ive made it clear to the police that i want to try and sort this out without court though so hopefully they dont stuff me around. When the new engine was put in i had a blue slip done and it was passed so yes the new engine was registered to the car. I do have receipts for it all aswell.

What youre saying is pretty much best case scenario for me at the moment, thats eaxcatly what im hoping will happen, what would be good is if i could find out how much a 2007 typhoon goes for at auction with a blown engine so i have an idea what i will have to pay the insurance company, unfortunately not many wreckers want to say how much they get thier cars for from the auctions.

xisled · 30-09-2014, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallidium

ive been asking the police to talk to the insurance comapny rep but they dont want to give me that info for some reason at the moment, ive made it clear to the police that i want to try and sort this out without court though so hopefully they dont stuff me around. When the new engine was put in i had a blue slip done and it was passed so yes the new engine was registered to the car. I do have receipts for it all aswell.

What youre saying is pretty much best case scenario for me at the moment, thats eaxcatly what im hoping will happen, what would be good is if i could find out how much a 2007 typhoon goes for at auction with a blown engine so i have an idea what i will have to pay the insurance company, unfortunately not many wreckers want to say how much they get thier cars for from the auctions.

First things first, you need to call NRMA and speak to the theft unit about this. The cops will do nothing in relation to what money you have put into the car, because all they are worried about is the crime. What money you spent on the car is a civil matter.

If you know it is NRMA then call Existing claims 131 123. It may be hard to get through to the person who is looking after the claim because you will need a rego or Vin number of the original numbers, but be firm do not get angry as it will be hard to locate any info.

You will first speak to a rep, if you have no luck speak to a Team Leader in claims, if still no luck ask for the Team Leader of the car theft department, and then if nothing further ask for the manager.

Take down the people full name or reference number, phone number etc. and do not let it go. This is the best way to get something back.

http://www.nrma.com.au/contact-us/ph...42549135-55378

Vallidium · 30-09-2014, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

First things first, you need to call NRMA and speak to the theft unit about this. The cops will do nothing in relation to what money you have put into the car, because all they are worried about is the crime. What money you spent on the car is a civil matter.

If you know it is NRMA then call Existing claims 131 123. It may be hard to get through to the person who is looking after the claim because you will need a rego or Vin number of the original numbers, but be firm do not get angry as it will be hard to locate any info.

You will first speak to a rep, if you have no luck speak to a Team Leader in claims, if still no luck ask for the Team Leader of the car theft department, and then if nothing further ask for the manager.

Take down the people full name or reference number, phone number etc. and do not let it go. This is the best way to get something back.

http://www.nrma.com.au/contact-us/ph...42549135-55378

I'll give them a call today and see what they say, the copper did mention a ladies name in Melbourne from Nrma so I might see if I can get onto her and just see what she has to say, I do t really think there's any privacy issues though especially if they technically own the car

NX74205 · 29-09-2014, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Talk to the insurance company.
Explain the engine change, did you get it re registered with the new engine number?
If so, and you have proof of purchase of the replacement engine then you may be able to negotiate a purchase price, using your ownership of the motor as bargaining strength, for the vehicle based on market value for a non drivable(blown motor etc.) example.
All the insurance company will want is as much as they can recover with the least amount of hassle.

It'll give him some degree of bargaining strength - as someone mentioned before, maybe register the motor on the PPSR. But that's as far as it goes.

OP, you should seek professional advice prior to doing so. There are laws governing what can and cannot be registered on the PPSR, as well as the legal ramifications - such as whether or not it'll have any real effect. The car is considered as the whole - shell, drivetrain and motor. Registering a security interest on the car is no problem, but registering a security interest on a motor might prove to be difficult and/or ineffective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I would have thought if you have proof of purchase for the replacement motor then they would have to at least have that back? Otherwise aren't they basically stealing it off you?

That might work if the OP still has the original blown motor with which to replace it.

Stefan · 29-09-2014, 12:58 PM

A member of my car club (and incidentally this forum) bought a XY GT replica many many years ago for $10K, it was a good replica with many HO parts fitted.

Car got inspected numbers x-rayed etc, it turns out it was a stolen Genuine XY GTHO!!!

Not sure how but somehow he got to keep it and still owns his $10k Genuine GTHO Phase 3.

He's a forum member too and quite a regular poster.

Some guys buy GTHOs only to get screwed and receive a tarted up Falcon 500, this guy buys a GT replica only to find out its a genuine GTHO Phase 3.

Vallidium · 29-09-2014, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

A member of my car club (and incidentally this forum) bought a XY GT replica many many years ago for $10K, it was a good replica with many HO parts fitted.

Car got inspected numbers x-rayed etc, it turns out it was a stolen Genuine XY GTHO!!!

Not sure how but somehow he got to keep it and still owns his $10k Genuine GTHO Phase 3.

He's a forum member too and quite a regular poster.

Some guys buy GTHOs only to get screwed and receive a tarted up Falcon 500, this guy buys a GT replica only to find out its a genuine GTHO Phase 3.

This is exactly the same as what has happened to me. Would love to know how he managed to keep the car !! This would be the best case scenario for me but I'm not holding my breath lol

Vallidium · 29-09-2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NX74205

It'll give him some degree of bargaining strength - as someone mentioned before, maybe register the motor on the PPSR. But that's as far as it goes.

OP, you should seek professional advice prior to doing so. There are laws governing what can and cannot be registered on the PPSR, as well as the legal ramifications - such as whether or not it'll have any real effect. The car is considered as the whole - shell, drivetrain and motor. Registering a security interest on the car is no problem, but registering a security interest on a motor might prove to be difficult and/or ineffective.

That might work if the OP still has the original blown motor with which to replace it.

unfortunately I don't have the engine that was pulled from the car originally either. I figured if it got to that point which I don't think it will, that I'd just buy a blown turbo motor to swap out. When I found a replacement engine it was sent straight to my mechanic to be swapped out because the car was in his shop taking up room, once he swapped the engines I took the car and didn't really care what was done with the old one as it was stuffed anyway.

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Mate, as everyone has stated, the car was never yours or the sellers to begin with. I'd go after the seller, he should be charged with obtaining money by deception and being in possession of stolen goods. If you know who the seller is get all your paperwork from the sale and go down to the police station to file an incident report. This may also curry favour with the insurance company that you are the innocent party in this, and they might be more amenable to reaching an agreement with you for the sale of the stolen car.
Do you know who the seller is?
Was it a car yard or a private sale? If not was it done at the sellers home?

Thanks for the input, as soon as the car was taken off me i made a statement with the police and told them absolutely every bit of info i could, this was in january, the latest contact ive had with them is they belive it was the owner before me and they have a warrant out for him. I dont know him personally. Ive given the police all the recipts for all the work done and parts etc. Unfortunately it was a private sale and it wasnt done at his house

naddis01 · 28-09-2014, 07:13 PM

So the revs check came up clear (not stolen) prior to purchasing? If so, this is the angle I would be pursuing with your legal representative.

XR Martin · 28-09-2014, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

So the revs check came up clear (not stolen) prior to purchasing? If so, this is the angle I would be pursuing with your legal representative.

REVs check doesnt guarentee to tell you whether a car is listed as stolen or not, only if its encumbered (ie someone has a lien on it)

Vallidium · 28-09-2014, 07:34 PM

yes mate, did 3 different checks on it and they all came back clear, unfortunately revs checks arent worth the paper they were printed on in my case, the chassis number than i checked i was fine, but the chassis number i checked wasnt the actual car....if that makes sense.

danzvtil · 28-09-2014, 07:45 PM

You've done your dough im afraid....
NRMA wont give 2 hoots about money you have spent on it, at BEST, if the original owner doesn't want it back(or insurance have already paid out)you may be able to make an offer to buy the vehicle (again, for the second time) or
Start legal proceedings against the person you bought it from as a civil case, which of course wont lead to anything because they will have no assets, and the legal costs will far exceed the possible reward even IF you have a judgement in your favour.

nstg8a · 28-09-2014, 08:07 PM

If it's now running false or incorrect vin numbers can it ever be legally registered?