who to report a dodgy seller to (not from this site)

ebv8 · 16-05-2016, 08:23 AM

my brother got on a plane to buy a car after paying a deposit and the car had dodgy vin plates and no chassis number
the guy then tried to supply the correct tags but by then it was too dodgy and the car was not the model it was meant to be.
so after losing the deposit as the guy didn't have it any more what authorities can we report it to? AFP or Police? also it happened interstate so do we contact that state?
the guy has probably now fitted the correct plates but he's screwed himself by bogging over the chassis number.
we have all the details but the original ad has been removed from gumtree and facebook
is there a way of finding the deleted ad? and proof of the deception
my brother just wants his money back.

Yellow_Festiva · 16-05-2016, 08:34 AM

I wonder if this will be a 'civil matter'? Perhaps small claims court may be your only option?

ebv8 · 16-05-2016, 08:55 AM

i found the ad in cache form stating it was a car that it was not.
not a ford but its comparable to someone putting GT tags on a base model shell.

do you mean civil matter as in pay some guys to go visit him?

GT014 · 16-05-2016, 08:56 AM

Unfortunately civil matter, hope it wasn't a huge deposit.
If the car is dodgy, fill out a form on crimestoppers and someone will look in to that side of it

ebv8 · 16-05-2016, 08:58 AM

just $500 and $500 airfares and trailer hire.

nz13boy · 16-05-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebv8

i found the ad in cache form stating it was a car that it was not.
not a ford but its comparable to someone putting GT tags on a base model shell.

do you mean civil matter as in pay some guys to go visit him?

No, he means civil as in NOT a criminal matter, but a "civil" dispute between your bro and the seller.

Philaddis · 16-05-2016, 09:12 AM

It's a criminal matter actually.

The vendor has attempted to defraud your brother by altering the VIN numbers and entering into a contract for sale without disclosure.

He will also have committed offences under the relevant vehicle standards of the jurisdiction as it is illegal to alter the VIN on vehicles.

Who knows what the actual history of the vehicle is and what other gems might pop up too.

If he's ever convicted the courts can order restitution be made to your brother, but then you have the standard issue of getting blood from a stone.

Contact the police in the state where the vehicle was offered for sale.

Good luck, otherwise it's an expensive lesson learned for your brother.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**Falcon Coupe** · 16-05-2016, 09:23 AM

Agreed Phil, sounds like he's trying to obtain financial advantage by deception. I'd report it to save the next person having to go through the same.

ebv8 · 16-05-2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nz13boy

No, he means civil as in NOT a criminal matter, but a "civil" dispute between your bro and the seller.

yes i was just being funny

Tassie f100 · 16-05-2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nz13boy

No, he means civil as in NOT a criminal matter, but a "civil" dispute between your bro and the seller.

But the way the almost non existant legal system works you will get more satisfaction by asking some of the local lads to go and have a chat to him.Won't get your money back but he will sure know he has done the wrong thing by your brother.Even if you went the legal way you still won't get your money back

IanC · 16-05-2016, 11:24 AM

If some one was stupid enough to put the heavies onto this guy then they would be the ones committing an offence. As said before report it to the police. That is all you can do.

The lesson for the rest of us is don't agree to buy anything over the net until you have seen it yourself. Photos can be faked. The net is full of scammers which is unfair to the decent people out there trying to do the right thing however you cannot take any chances.

**Giant Cranium** · 16-05-2016, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebv8

i found the ad in cache form stating it was a car that it was not.
not a ford but its comparable to someone putting GT tags on a base model shell.

do you mean civil matter as in pay some guys to go visit him?

Was it a hilux. Some blokes making sr's into sr5's is common

The Yeti · 16-05-2016, 12:07 PM

**** and I was ****ed when a dude wouldn't supply a $50 tow bar I won on ebay becasue he wanted more than the auction got

Tassie f100 · 16-05-2016, 12:40 PM

[QUOTE=IanC;5669077]If some one was stupid enough to put the heavies onto this guy then they would be the ones committing an offence. As said before report it to the police. That is all you can do.

The lesson for the rest of us is don't agree to buy anything over the net until you have seen it yourself.

In a perfect world your are correct but Scum like this only respond to one type of justice.I have had an experience where a credit card was stolen and racked up couple of grands worth of purchases,Cops couldn't give a rats ort.Had another experience where an A.H done me out of $1200 rent.Only got an satisfaction via a friendly chat.

LG17 · 16-05-2016, 01:51 PM

Go straight to the police.
It is fraud and they will take action.
It may take some time for the process but it is worth it.

A bloke tried something similar on me. I kept at it and 2 years later he's happily sunning himself in the exercise yard at the Townsville Correctional Centre.

Patty · 16-05-2016, 02:29 PM

Another thing noone has mentioned here is, did you brother actually inspect the vehicle before placing deposit? In this case surely buyer beware applies. The responsibilty falls on your bro for not doing further checks with the relevent authority (ie vicroads, RTA) to see if the numbers matched.

As much as this sucks, I just can't see how your brother will get his money back.

blueoval · 16-05-2016, 03:17 PM

In any case, if you want to do it legally, a lawyer is needed if you want to pursue your refund. The issue with that is, is it worth paying more for the sake of $500 and a plane ticket?

ebv8 · 16-05-2016, 03:20 PM

he did a revs check and it was all good, paid deposit and inspected the car, the car was not what was advertised and had false plates and no vin on the chassis.
it is illegal to detach vin plates,
illegal to re-attach vin plates even if they are the original ones,
illegal to deface the chassis number,
there is also deception and fraud.
so yes buyer beware but f.wits like this should not be on this planet

**Cav** · 16-05-2016, 03:30 PM

The police will file a report but it is your word against his.

I had a bloke back into my car while my SIL was driving.

The end result, cops said it was our word against his and didn't do anything.

I then went to the court house (NSW) and obtained details for small claims. The difference here is the standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities, not proof beyond reasonable doubt.

I first had to send him a letter of demand setting out the details and costs I incurred because of him. I sent it by registered post. After three weeks I sent him a reminder.

Then I sent him a letter that if he will finalise that matter I was prepared to discount the amount owed by 20%.

I received nothing from him, no money not even a reply.

I then filled out the paperwork at the court house for the small claims court. The chap at the court house was very helpful and suggested changes to my claim.

He then asked me about serving the court papers. I said me and my SIL would. He suggested that we use the Sheriff otherwise the bloke would claim he never got it. The cost was an extra $35 which is added to the claim.

The Sheriff served the claim.

Three days later the bloke sent me the money.

I was really disappointed, I wanted my day in court.

blueoval · 16-05-2016, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

The police will file a report but it is your word against his.

I had a bloke back into my car while my SIL was driving.

The end result, cops said it was our word against his and didn't do anything.

I then went to the court house (NSW) and obtained details for small claims. The difference here is the standard of proof is on the balance of probabilities, not proof beyond reasonable doubt.

I first had to send him a letter of demand setting out the details and costs I incurred because of him. I sent it by registered post. After three weeks I sent him a reminder.

Then I sent him a letter that if he will finalise that matter I was prepared to discount the amount owed by 20%.

I received nothing from him, no money not even a reply.

I then filled out the paperwork at the court house for the small claims court. The chap at the court house was very helpful and suggested changes to my claim.

He then asked me about serving the court papers. I said me and my SIL would. He suggested that we use the Sheriff otherwise the bloke would claim he never got it. The cost was an extra $35 which is added to the claim.

The Sheriff served the claim.

Three days later the bloke sent me the money.

I was really disappointed, I wanted my day in court.

While it is annoying and time consuming to go down this path, it was clear to this imbecile that you were not going to go away and accept defeat. Im glad you got an outcome. Did you receive all the costs back or just the amount he owed?

Philaddis · 16-05-2016, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

The police will file a report but it is your word against his.

Sorry to disagree, but not really. I'm imagining there'll be text and or email comm's between the the seller and the purchaser, the money transfer of the deposit, maybe a contract, the advertisement detailing the offered vehicle and unless it's been disposed of, the car itself which will have evidence of tampering.

**Cav** · 16-05-2016, 05:30 PM

The cops won't get the money back for him.

Philaddis · 16-05-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

The cops won't get the money back for him.

Assuming that the courts can convict the crook and identify OP's brother as a victim they can and most likely would order restitution be paid to him.........

**Cav** · 16-05-2016, 10:19 PM

Look I don't want to appear to be a smart **** here but what does the OP want? This guy to feel the full force of the law or get his money back?

I just gave my experience. If in the future if I suffered a loss from anyone else again of course I would report it to the police.

But if there is a hassle it is straight to the small claims court to get the money, as long as you have a case on the balance of probabilities.

So to my untrained legal mind in this case for the small claims court and it was me who was out of pocket I would need proof that I paid the guy the money (probably bank transfer). Proof that I incurred travel costs (plane fare, taxi receipt etc.). Proof of the ad. Proof that the vehicle was misrepresented in the ad. Copies of letters of demand sent by registered post.

If I didn't have all this then I dunno if a claim would succeed.

In my case I tried to also claim interest from the time I incurred the costs. The guy at the Court House said the Magistrate would not accept that so I left it off my claim. Having now had an experienced, I would still detail all my costs in my original letter of demand. That way the guy is likely to cough up all the money as soon as the court papers are served. If not and it goes to court then the Magistrate can trim from my claim what he feels is not right.

It is all very well to say that the law will look after you, that was not my experience.

Even my insurer would not help. My insurance company says that if I can identify the at fault driver I will not be out of pocket. I contacted them and advised them details of the other bloke but because the police did not charge the other bloke then the insurer deemed he was not at fault.

I could tell you more but in future I would report things to the police but then prepare my own case for the small claims court just in case the law is an ***.

Philaddis · 16-05-2016, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cav

Look I don't want to appear to be a smart **** here but what does the OP want? This guy to feel the full force of the law or get his money back?

I just gave my experience. If in the future if I suffered a loss from anyone else again of course I would report it to the police.

But if there is a hassle it is straight to the small claims court to get the money, as long as you have a case on the balance of probabilities.

So to my untrained legal mind in this case for the small claims court and it was me who was out of pocket I would need proof that I paid the guy the money (probably bank transfer). Proof that I incurred travel costs (plane fare, taxi receipt etc.). Proof of the ad. Proof that the vehicle was misrepresented in the ad. Copies of letters of demand sent by registered post.

If I didn't have all this then I dunno if a claim would succeed.

In my case I tried to also claim interest from the time I incurred the costs. The guy at the Court House said the Magistrate would not accept that so I left it off my claim. Having now had an experienced, I would still detail all my costs in my original letter of demand. That way the guy is likely to cough up all the money as soon as the court papers are served. If not and it goes to court then the Magistrate can trim from my claim what he feels is not right.

It is all very well to say that the law will look after you, that was not my experience.

Even my insurer would not help. My insurance company says that if I can identify the at fault driver I will not be out of pocket. I contacted them and advised them details of the other bloke but because the police did not charge the other bloke then the insurer deemed he was not at fault.

I could tell you more but in future I would report things to the police but then prepare my own case for the small claims court just in case the law is an ***.

I didn't think you were in any drama of being considered a smart **** Cav. You're speaking from experience and there's nothing wrong with that and in relation to traffic matters that (most of the time) is exactly the situation.

In those situations it's not the job of the police, or the courts job to exact recompense for what ultimately comes down to a civil matter. That's why insurance companies rely on 'knock for knock' policies in most events.

In this instance however, you have a complainant, a victim (likely to wind up one and the same) and an offender who has committed a criminal offence, specifically where the victim suffered a financial detriment directly related to the criminal conduct.

It's just a different situation that's all.

ebv8 · 17-05-2016, 08:02 AM

money back and get the law involved so it doesn't happen again.
my brother has settle on half the initial deposit and no police as the police won't do anything anyway as its hearsay, if it was a stolen car that would be different at the moment its just deception and a civil matter

the seller runs a facebook page about these cars so i bet his followers will love to know he is a shady C and they will as soon as some money comes through

RANGEREST · 17-05-2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebv8

money back and get the law involved so it doesn't happen again.
my brother has settle on half the initial deposit and no police as the police won't do anything anyway as its hearsay, if it was a stolen car that would be different at the moment its just deception and a civil matter

the seller runs a facebook page about these cars so i bet his followers will love to know he is a shady C and they will as soon as some money comes through

Can you recommend a Facebook page where I can look at these cars?

ebv8 · 18-05-2016, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANGEREST

Can you recommend a Facebook page where I can look at these cars?

i'll give you this clue, the car in question should have come out of the factory without a piston engine but in actual fact this car did have a piston engine from factory and had been replaced with a non piston engine and plates.

i'll let you all know soon