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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,905
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Now I want say up front, that Wanneroo Mitsubishi are awesome. They have fixed everything on my daughter's Lancer, no problems, no questions asked. And when in for it's capped-price servicing they are excellent and even spot and take on other warranty work without being asked.
But they are the exception. They were owned by the Divigillio family for a long time, so maybe have a different approach? I don't know exactly how warranty claims work, and maybe it's not the most lucrative, but surely it's still profitable? But no, rather than undertake paid work, they would rather just shrug and blatantly lie, And I'm not talking about something that's hard to diagnose, or a judgement call. The tank sender (or senders) just aren't working correctly. It says the tank is full, even though it's down to about 5% |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,892
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I thought they get reimbursed from head office. No "profit" to be made. That's why some big jobs they have to get authorisation from head office before they will take it on. Could be wrong.
I remember taking my TE50 into a ford dealership once to get the clutch tuning fork fixed. I was expecting to pay, because I didn't buy it from that dealer, it was an 02 model and it was around 2007 from memory. After doing the job the dealer sent me on my way without charge. I asked why, he said he managed to get head office to approve it. ![]()
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rides (past and present) Current: 2004 Ford Falcon 5.4L 3v Barra 220, Manual Past: Mitsubishi Sigma (m), Toyota Seca (m), Toyota Seca SX (m), Toyota Vienta V6 (m), Toyota Soarer 4L v8 (a), BA XR8 ute (m), T3 TE50 (m), BMW Z4 (m) AFF motto - If contrary views trigger, please use ignore button. ![]() |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pt Lincoln far side South Oz
Posts: 5,776
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my 2 bobs worth.
yes head office may pay but I'd wager it's not 10 days after invioce. any mechanic gets your job its either cash on pick up or shortly after by arrangement. manufacturers 30 day minimum.
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Dont p i s s off older people. At our age the term Life in Prison is not a deterrent |
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#4 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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Quote:
The rate varied from dealership to dealership and would get assessed on a regular basis to ensure it was enough or not too much.
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#5 | ||
#neuteredlyfe
![]() ![]() Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,535
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It is because manufacturers are not silly enough to pay for ten hours of labour on a job that takes seven.
Now that the cynical side of me is out... There is a lot of mucking around with some manufacturers regarding warranty work. There is also not generally one manufacturer that is better than the other. Dealing with warranty claims can vary from month to month, manufacturer to manufacturer. Sometimes it is not the job that the service department is trying to avoid, it is all of the other administration work that is involved. Get a manufacturer that has decided to clamp down on their warranty claims and the Even if you get that far with photos and a report, it can sometimes take the manufacturer a couple of days to get back to them with an answer, mind you, that answer can sometimes be 'try this or try that'. The technician knowing that this or that is not going to work has to try it or the manufacturer will not go ahead with the claim. Also, while all of this is happening it is generally tying up a hoist. Not only is it profit prohibitive to have a car up on the hoist, it can also create a back log of work as that hoist is out of use. Sorry for the long post, but I hope that helps. |
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,286
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Companies like Ford hold back money for projected warranty work but in later years,
they actually skimp badly in this area to free up the cash for other things. So while dealers and Ford are still happy to do warranty work when required, sometimes they drag their feet on the most inexplicable things….. |
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,905
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There has to be some system that works, otherwise nothing would ever get done?
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#8 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 88
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The way it used to work at Ford Australia - although this is 20 years ago now - is that dealers were authorised to do warranty work up to a specified level, but anything that was very high cost had to be referred to Ford for prior approval. The dealer was reimbursed labour rates at a rate set by Ford, but which was pretty close to a retail rate. Parts were provided at cost plus a small handling fee rather than retail markups. The dealer was reimbursed by Ford by an offset to the dealer’s parts account with Ford which is settled monthly.
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#9 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 3,618
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Quote:
Its called customer care, met a few in my time, and good service was more important than good profit. Cheers King Billy ![]() |
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,286
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I bought a new EF II cardinal red GLI in September 1995 only to find that
Ford had reduced the seat travel by about an inch, enough to make for an uncomfortable driving position. I was able to explain this to the DP by showing him the difference when compared with a friend’s EF I. He was able to intercede on behalf of me to Ford who agreed to change the seat base to EF I (~$700). I don’t know if that sort of thing would be entertained today…….. |
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#11 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Some jobs are allocated labour hours that are unrealistic. So dealership loses money on the labour when it takes longer than the allocated time. Ford had issues with this years ago, but made chances to allocated hours to be real world and achievable.
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#12 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,554
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Quote:
Cheers |
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#13 | |||
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,892
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Quote:
^^^ This ^^^ With the advent of Longer Warranties & Capped price servicing the Book Time Allocated by the car Companies takes a fair bit of Practice to achieve.! Particularly in Smaller Dealerships & on Slow(er) selling Models.. |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane (Southside)
Posts: 1,151
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Quote:
Ive never had an issue getting warranty stuff fixed on any of my cars... the best of the lot was Mazda (from cars I've owned at least) the worst was Jeep (though that was more because the dealer was useless, rather than FCA themselves)
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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When in a dealership, if we believed the allocated time was not achievable, our DSM would come out and go through the job, with a Tech doing it, if it was not achievable then it got amended.
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#16 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,089
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"I've got this problem with my car, it runs rough and doesn't change gears smoothly"
"Oh that's normal, you will need to adjust your driving style" I love that chestnut.
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jaydee351 4DV8 |
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#17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 656
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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Quote:
If someone was not happy with an answer from the dealership, it was left for the DSM to inspect it on their next visit and make the call, there was no issue in getting cars fixed under warranty if the car had a fault.
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 547
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A million years ago, when I was Service Manager for a General Motors distributor, the paper work for warranty stuff was complex. Warranty claim forms had to have an intelligible and detailed description of the fault, diagnosis and solution. If you could not satisfy those conditions, and also confirm that the fault was the result of a manufacturing or assembly defect - not paid.
Unfortunately, paperwork and written expression is not the core skill of many mechanics. As a result, many claims forms had to be resubmitted. As indicated by others, the pay rate for warrenty work was not high, so there were many dealers who just didn’t bother with it. |
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,905
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Quote:
So the the supervisor is essentially say "ok, I know exactly what the problem is because it happens often. The manual says that a trained mechanic can do the job in 60 minutes. But because I employ minimum wage stoners and give then no training, but charge their time at full whack, I know it will take them 2 hours. And in that 2 hours they could have ripped off at least 5 grandmothers for an overpriced oil change. So I'll just straight-up lie to the customer. |
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#21 | ||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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Easy, labour rate is low $$$ per hour, time to do job is not enough and they won't pay diagnostics time. ie $80 per hour and allow 4 hours to do a 6 hour job. 2 hours diagnostics time unpaid. So 8 hours spent on job with 4 hours paid. $320 paid by Ford for 8 hours work. So this works out to $40 per hour for 8 hours. Mechanic is getting $30 per hour plus super, holidays and sickies. So instead of doing an 8 hour job and getting $960 they get $320 plus they make nothing on parts. These numbers are just an example but you get the idea.
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#22 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,940
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Quote:
Personally, I've had a few experiences with warranty. The best (surprisingly) have been Alfa Romeo, followed closely by Ford, but in a distant and disappointing third, Subaru are the worst. Maybe it's a Japanese thing? With Alfa Romeo, I've had my alarm ultrasonics module replaced, numerous software updates done free of charge, tiny rubber seal issues rectified around the windows (which I even thought were pedantic), and a couple of big ticket items including radio (was resetting every now and then, they ordered a new module in right away), and a new drive shaft (which I'm sure had nothing to do with a few hard launches, yet replaced no questions asked) - the last 2 items were $6k in parts alone, and 2 days in the shop. Ford realigned my squeaky dash, fixed my leaky sump, cured my noisy diff, and looked at the many noises the car made during every service, with great communication to be honest. But Subaru, geez. The drivers seat bolster was tearing open with only 8000km on the car, and Subaru made us work to get it sorted under warranty, which they finally did as a 'goodwill gesture.' Similarly, the manual gear boot started tearing, after shrugging it, they go off and order a whole surround, excluding the damaged bit, and change it out and didn't even figure out what they have done until we told them. It took a second visit to rectify it. Then the worst was when they damaged all 4 rims during the last service and wanted to deny it. We went all the way to Subaru's head office who conceded and got all 4 wheels resprayed at a cost of $1500 to them. Never mind the car needs servicing every 6 months, and they charge the full amount of the cap price quoted, yeah real nice. Sat nav updates requested 4 times until they figured it out... They didn't even bother to wash the car the last 2 services. Honestly has put us off the brand (this is the 3rd brand new Soobie we buy too!) Still can't beat the $5000 quote we got on the previous STi to change brake disc's and pads at 25,000km. Got the rotors machined, and sourced pads myself through Racebrake (forum sponsor) and all done for $700 or so. But I digress....
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#23 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
![]() The whole point is the labour hours for the job are supposed to be achievable. Then the dealership is going to be more willing to take the job on than palm the customer off by denying the warranty claim. Ford have taken steps like this and their customer service ratings have increased markedly over the past 5 years. So much so that they were ranked equal with Mazda at no1 last year. |
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#24 | ||||
NOT A TOYOTA :/
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eastern Suburbs, Melb
Posts: 2,554
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Quote:
Quote:
Believe me when I tell you, if we could hire the right people or train existing ones to be better equipped in our workshops, we would!
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06 Land Managed to remain in the v8 fraternity |
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#25 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,905
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Quote:
Wanneroo Mitsubishi are awesome, they are the exception to my rant against dealers. Nuford, meh. Phoenix Holden? Wouldn't **** on em if they were on fire. Metro Holden are the subject of my current rant. Quote:
I took a gamble and it hasn't paid off. I wonder if part of it, is the former dealers being ****ed at GM?? |
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#26 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,058
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Quote:
Until that changes all the kids doing apprenticeships are going to go the path of construction trades where the money is actually decent, the overheads are lower if you go the self employed route and you have all the benefits that they get on construction sites, or they'll go onto university. In my Year 12 group, out of 140 of us who finished, only 10 went onto apprenticeships (and two of us automotive trades ![]() I just took on a new kid at work and he's getting paid more than a qualified light vehicle mechanic in Melbourne and has absolutely zero experience in the automotive industry, has the right attitude though and a passion for cars - why would you push this kid into an apprenticeship for? No 4 years of slave wages, no providing tens of thousands worth of your own tools and no getting dirty for **** all. The automotive 'skills shortage' is a joke, was being handled by abusing 457 visas and treating them terribly because if they complain they'll get sent back home - COVID put a stop to that pretty quick. I've been on the skills shortage list for a decade yet the wages haven't done too much improving in that time. Its a sunset industry, the profit margins are all taken by the people up the chain leaving nothing for the workshop which means nothing for the guy/girl turning spanners (or the owner of said workshop) Probably worth it in a mining state where the wages are more competitive, somewhere like Melbourne that a service based economy, don't bother is my advice to any young ones reading this. Its kinds like maths based sciences like engineers being poached by the finance industry where there is better coin and conditions on offer, they have transferable skills - seen that happen a couple times at work. The 'cream' of a high volume automotive workshop (servicing) is going to disappear when EV's become prominent and your service items are rotors and pads which now hardly wear because of regenerative braking. I liken automotive to hospitality - you do it for the passion and the love of it cause you sure as **** don't do it for the wages. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 12-07-2021 at 08:39 PM. |
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pit Lane
Posts: 11,867
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GM sold their warranty to an insurance company, they make a dealer jump through hoops to even get a small claim passed
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Pit Lane Performance 20 Rosella St Frankston 03 9783 8122 Authorised Streetfighter, Pcmtec , SCT & HP Tuners Tuning Agent,
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#28 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,905
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Quote:
On another issue, there is a clear problem with the engine, and it fits the symptoms of a known fault, and they are again saying "we couldn't find anything wrong." Quote:
Basically, if you have an IQ above 70, can stay off hard-drugs just long enough to pass an initial screening, and are willing to turn up for work at least 50% of the time, you can make $600 a day working shut-downs. Doesn't leave a huge talent-pool for city based trades. |
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#29 | |||
NOT A TOYOTA :/
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eastern Suburbs, Melb
Posts: 2,554
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Quote:
I completely agree that as a trade automotive is not a great one when compared to the earning potential of other trades - but who is to blame? Car manufacturers that pay pennies on warranty repair work as mentioned? Car manufacturers hellbent on "capped servicing" and "fixed price servicing"? Customers who question every dollar spent in an automotive workshop? At the end of the day trades pay well due to profitability. What is the return for trades such as builders, plumbers, etc? I'm willing to bet that is far higher than the piddily returns the automotive sector makes.
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06 Land Managed to remain in the v8 fraternity |
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#30 | |||
NOT A TOYOTA :/
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eastern Suburbs, Melb
Posts: 2,554
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Quote:
The dealer or the manufacturer? If a car presents to a dealer with an issue and no fault is detected by following the processes put in place by the manufacturer - do you expect the dealer to just make repairs that haven't been confirmed necessary out of good will? Who's paying the labour and the parts? I get your frustrations. There's been many times when cars are presented to us with issues that we cannot replicate - but we absolutely must follow the manufacturers policy otherwise we get no support and sometimes even financial penalties as a consequence.
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06 Land Managed to remain in the v8 fraternity |
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