Speed cameras revenue raisers? Does the westgate bridge really need them?

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

First of all, I read this:

West Gate stalling city traffic flow

Strangled by traffic: travelling on the West Gate Bridge in peak traffic periods is a slow and frustrating experience.

THE West Gate Bridge is slowly succumbing to paralysis. From 1994 to 2004, the average peak-hour travel time between the Western Ring Road and Kings Way more than doubled — from just over 11 minutes to more than 25 minutes.

In 1994, the average travel speed in the morning peak between Williamstown Road and Cook Street was 80.7 km/h. Last year, the average speed for the same stretch of bridge was 49.6 km/h. At the busiest times in the peak period, the entire crossing is a virtual logjam.

As the State Government and Opposition work on plans for an alternative to the bridge, Government figures show what thousands of daily commuters have long known — the bridge is a car park with bay views.

http://theage.com.au/news/national/w...191610133.html

Then, within hours of reading that, I read this:

Faulty speed cameras fixed

MOTORISTS speeding over Melbourne's largest bridge could be in for a nasty surprise as speed camera's installed on the bridge are switched on for the first time.

Cameras were installed on the West Gate Bridge more than two years ago, but were never used as faults with speed cameras on the Western Ring Road were discovered in November 2003.

The state government was last year forced to reimburse $26 million to motorists for fines as well as compensation for 1,500 lost licences over the speed camera fiasco.

But Victoria Police and Emergency Services Minister Tim Holding said the $2 million upgraded camera system installed on the bridge would be subject to a stringent maintenance program and fixed problems with the old-style cameras.

The four new cameras check motorists' speed twice, using two different methods, before photographing the offending vehicle, Mr Holding said.

The cameras' housing had also been upgraded to shield them from possible electromagnetic interference.

Mr Holding said the system would boost safety on the West Gate Bridge, which he said was one of Melbourne's most notorious blackspots.

He said 89 people were injured in crashes on the bridge between July 1999 and June last year.

"Speed cameras are about changing the attitude and behaviour of Victorian drivers in the same way a cultural change for wearing seat belts and drink-driving has been achieved," Mr Holding said.

http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...nbv%5e,00.html

Need I say any more? :

[Psycho Chicken]

They weren't on?! You mean I've been watching the speedo for nothing?!

[Casper]

Doesnt matter, the bridge is lucky to ever see the speed limit anyhow.

As for a 'notorious blackspot', horsecrap. The last death on the bridge I can remember was in the early 90's, and that was when a trucks brakes exploded and sent a piece of steel through an oncoming cars window. Its probably one of the least likely places in Vic for speed related deaths... unless you count the 'jumpers' impact speed into the mouth of the Yarra as speeding.

Just another lame *** revenue collection device.

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

Originally Posted by Casper

As for a 'notorious blackspot', horsecrap. The last death on the bridge I can remember was in the early 90's, and that was when a trucks brakes exploded and sent a piece of steel through an oncoming cars window. Its probably one of the least likely places in Vic for speed related deaths... unless you count the 'jumpers' impact speed into the mouth of the Yarra as speeding.

Just another lame *** revenue collection device.

Exactly, and both of those articles being published within days of the other proves it in my opinion.

Question is, what can anybody do about it, despite it being made blatantly obvious like this, I suspect there is very little we can do, or that many people will even notice the two articles and link them together to come to the obvious conclusion. :

[whippet_zetec]

its a funny thing speed cameras. I had an article last year (will try and find it on the net) about how some States in the US have actually canned the whole speed camera idea based on their data collectively concluding that they dont lower road death tolls nor do they stop drivers from speeding generally...

was an interesting read actually, just wish the same legislators in Australia stopped serving us those lines of rubbish and called a spade a spade....cameras are revenue raising devices and only deter speeding in the location they are implemented.

[Smoked]

Westgate bridge a black spot? :gren:

You have got to be joking? i cant recall any news that an accident had occured apart from the truck mentioned earlier. If there was an accident on the bridge due to speed, given the nature it would be quite serious and the bridge would be closed or severly limited in capacity. A closure or limited capacity would be mentioned on every media outlet known to man in Melbourne.

So, when was the last time anyone heard of such an event on the news?

[NZ]

89 people injured.

So how many cars crossed it?

Say 1 million in a year (I have no idea how many vehicles crossed it)

89 isnt even .01% I say thats a pretty good outcome

[Psycho Chicken]

I bet more people have been injured from it falling down then car accidents.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

I saw a motor cyclist Get killed on the westgate bridge in I think 1989 and it was due to careless driving on the part of another motorist ,A volvo driver that changed lanes with out looking , knocking him off the bike , and he slid into the guard rail upright in the center of the bridge killing him instantly ! My passengers and I all gave statemnets to what we saw and the cops had already verified speed was not a factor from the speed cameras on the bridge !
By the way , The volvo driver didnt even know what he had cause and kept driving oblivious to the carnage left behind !

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Originally Posted by NZ

89 people injured.

So how many cars crossed it?

Say 1 million in a year (I have no idea how many vehicles crossed it)

89 isnt even .01% I say thats a pretty good outcome

Surely it would go close to Half a million cars crossing it a day wouldnt it ?

[MITCHAY]

I really dont see much point in most speed cameras partly due to their locations. People just slow down for the camera and boot it when they get past it. Is there any proof that they have reduced the road toll at all?

[Casper]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Is there any proof that they have reduced the road toll at all?

No, nothing, zip, nada.. there is no evidence at all that they are anything but an exceptional revenue collection device.

[Dave_au]

The camera is there because if it wasn't, the police would have a hard time performing radar ops etc, making it a potential blackspot.

It's the same excuse used in NSW to ensure the M5 tunnel, the ED tunnel, the Crosscity tunnel (which just opened) and the Harbour tunnel have speed cameras when their not a blackspot. I believe the ED and the Crosscity have not yet had a fatality.

Originally Posted by RTA Speed Definition Problem and Coutermeasure Summary 2000

Fixed speed cameras can be effectively implemented at sites which are difficult for the Police to enforce using conventional methods, where there is a problem with excessive speeding and where a serious or fatal crash would result in significant difficulties of access by ambulance and emergency vehicles to the crash site. This is why speed cameras have been installed in the Eastern Distributor and Harbour Tunnels in Sydney.

[SSbaby]

Not a blackspot. It is among the safest stretches of congested road anywhere. Hardly any accidents to speak of since the time the bridge was built... and the state Labor government then decides to install cameras there... all in the name of improving on an already impeccable road safety record on the bridge.

Go figure?

[NZ]

Its interesting theyre only on the downhill sections. If its as bad as they say why arent the uphill stretches being photographed as well?

My guess is people arent doing 83km/hr going up

[NZ]

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

Surely it would go close to Half a million cars crossing it a day wouldnt it ?

Thats a lot of cars! A a guess (an uneducated one at that) 25- 30,000 might be realistic

[Casper]

The cameras only work on the uphill sections, they are not set up for the downhill.. even Bracks wouldnt be able to survive trying to justify that.

[jmc-007]

You have more of a chance from eating Mc Donnalds and KFC your whole life than getting into an accident at a so called black spot.

The govt is ingenius at comming up with ways to dumb down the public and taking money off them.

it:

[micksta]

i find that the accidents caused on the westgate would be coz ppl r moving the same speed as my pet turtle (no i don't have one) and ppl getting out and belting one another .... and the thing is ... the people are only getting injured .. sure its bad .. but what serious injury can u cause at 50kmh with nothing but other cars surrounding you ? you can't obviously kill/injure a pedestrian ... if the bridge didn't have side walls then maybe it'd be a different story ... but from what im readin ... sounds like a load of junk to me.

my 2c

[shane3]

Found this today.

Last Update: Saturday, October 1, 2005. 11:00am (AEST)
Westgate Bridge speed cameras set to go

Authorities say new speed cameras on Melbourne's Westgate Bridge have been designed to be as accurate as possible.

A Department of Justice spokesman says the four cameras are being switched on today, after they were partially installed on the bridge two years ago.

He says all speed-camera projects were put on hold after problems with cameras on the Western Ring Road.

The spokesman says the cameras on the bridge have devices to double-check speed and special housing to protect against electro-magnetic interference.


NOW they have to double check your speed!!!! what they cant get it rite the first time!!!

And even more,

ALL FIGURES ARE FOR INBOUND TRIPS IN THE MORNING PEAK PERIOD BETWEEN 6AM AND 9AM

Average speed (km/h) 80.7; 49.6

Number of cars per peak period 17,627; 20,806

so at 6AM the Average speed is 80.7 km/h, and has 17,627 cars per peak period and then around 9AM drops to an average speed of 49.6 km/h, with 20,806 cars per peak hour........So thoes speed cameras are going to get a real work out with all those people screeming over the bridge at 49.6 km/h.

even more

Speed Cameras are installed on the West Gate Bridge. Picture: Paul Trezise
THE West Gate Bridge is set to provide the State Government with a $1 million-a-day speed camera bonanza. Four new cameras were installed on the bridge yesterday.

They could rake in as much as $1.14 million a day based on an estimate that 5 per cent of the 150,000 vehicles that use the bridge on average each day exceed the speed limit.

Victoria's average speeding fine is $152.

The cameras are scheduled to start snapping speedsters by the end of the month.

The cameras were installed at the top of the bridge and will trap motorists on the rise and descent in both directions.

The West Gate speed limit is 80km/h, but can be cut to as low as 40km/h depending on weather and traffic conditions.

The speed cameras will be synchronised to catch speedsters when the limit is reduced.

A spokeswoman for Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said signs would warn motorists when the cameras were operating.

"If people adhere to the road safety message and stick to the limit, they won't be fined,"she said.

But Opposition transport spokesman Terry Mulder slammed the cameras as another revenue raiser for the Bracks Government.

"It will be a whopping Christmas present when drivers cop a fine in the mail when the Government secretly turns on the speed cameras," Mr Mulder said.

"Perhaps Peter Batchelor should put a Christmas card in with the speeding fine, thanking the driver for their contribution."

RACV chief engineer Michael Case said motorists should be given proper warning of the West Gate Bridge speed cameras.

"It is important signs exist and that they are highly visible,"he said.

Mr Case said the RACV was concerned by the number of crashes caused by speed on the West Gate Bridge.

"The best place for speed cameras is where there are recognised speed-related issues and the West Gate Bridge is one of those," he said.

Mr Case warned motorists to take notice of the variable speed limits on the bridge.

"In any circumstance, the onus is on the motorist to drive within the speed limit," he said.

Mr Mulder said the Government was doing all it could to fill black holes in the state Budget.

"The black spot program has been ditched and money for road maintenance was cut by $15 million for regional roads last budget, and $55 million cut from capital works for regional roads," he said.

Mr Mulder promised speed cameras would be a major issue at the next election.

A survey to be released today by car insurer AAMI reveals more than half of Australia's motorists are sceptical about speed cameras.

The study shows 60 per cent of motorists believe speed cameras are installed to raise revenue and do not deter speeding.

The study also found nine in 10 drivers exceeded the speed limit some of the time.

[Dr Smith]

It might seem obvious but the cameras are really for picking up speeding drivers during off-peak times when they actually have the chance to drive above 80km/hr, or above 40km/hr during strong wind gusts. (when you're really brave/stupid).