BF XR8 price puts it out of market

[VZSS250]

The BF XR8 price has risen by $1,300 to more than $52K and now cannot compete with the VZ SSZ at $49,990. Meanwhile the SSZ comes fully equipped with leather, 18 inch alloys, premium brakes, sports binnacles and rear park sensors. Meanwhile, the XR8 is priced as a manual and asks for a further $1200 for the auto!

So we are expected to pay $1,300 extra for what? A new bumper? New seat fabric? Supposedly better fuel economy?

This is a disappointing move by Ford who have now officially given the budget performance game away and pushed the XR8 into the premium V8 sports sedan segment competing alongside the Calais and Fairmont Ghia.

Combined with a sluggish bottom end and a breathless top end as reported in Motor in the last couple of editions (admittedly these comments were about the FPV V8s, such as in the recent ute comparison) the XR8 is no longer an option for young boy racers seeking blistering V8 performance at a sub $50k price.

Ofcourse, people will talk about chassis balance and refinement, but performance weighs heavily on the minds of budget conscious performance buyers who want a car that can put down good track times, not preserve the weary bones of old men.

What do you guys think? Has Ford mistimed its price hike? Should they have at least provided a noticeable facelift? Should the price hike have been matched by a performance increase? Is the SSZ a better option? Will the BF be blown away by VE at this price?

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

What do you guys think

I think it smells of a test drive taken from a magazine!

I also think your apples for oranges comparison may not stand up to comparison when you add the common accessories such as tow packs etc.

$1300 for an upgrade to the 6sp auto is a steal, I have not heard anything but praise from anyone who has had the bum in the seat of one, it is that much better than the previous 4 speed automatic and eons ahead of the bucket of clunks GM offer.

Some price rise is inevitable with new models, and the opposition will discount the begeezus out of what they have on offer as mid model stock. Try to get discounts from either manufacturer when a model is fresh and new.

As for your cap backward boy racers, odds on they have opted for XR6T do you seriously want to do a price / performance comparison with the blown 6's in the picture?

The BF XR8 remains excellent value, it more than holds it own as did its predecessor. And I think you should try to at least make it to the passenger seat of one when the revs get 3500 and honestly continue to believe the top end is breathless.

Will the BF be blown away by the VE on price? In a word, NO!

What do I think? I think ill informed and less than factual spoiler posts intended to incite flame wars are poor form indeed!

[LTDHO]

Ford do this. It amazes me as they are hurting themselves.

Remember ford don't have a marketing department and the reply on ripping the Ford fans who buy their cars.

[GT-E]

If you think about what is now standard on the car, I think the price rise is acceptable.
The new included items are: DSC, side airbags and better brakes.
Adding $1200 for the 6 sp auto is a fair price.
You cannot compare a VZ SS with a XR8 as one is a antique (SS) when the other is a full EURO3 compliant 21st century car.
The only reason the gibbons at motor think its is breathless is that it does not have a 6lt PUSHROD V8 with a 20yo 4sp auto.
There seems to be a GMH fan club at some of the motoring magazines, who can never be happy with a Ford product, but will be thrilled with a substandard GMH product.

[geckoGT]

I have heard it said that the boss is a bit wanting down low (i agree) but breatless up top? Every review I have read said it was a beast in the upper rev ranges.
Anyway, I you want to pay 2005 prices for a car that has a driveline that has not changed much in 10 years, go ahead. Lets see what the price of VE is, this will be interesting.

[VZSS250]

This is not meant to incite a flame war, just a debate so be nice people. The price hike is an interesting move and should at least be questioned.

My opening post was a bit harsh, but I just wanted to make sure that the new price did not go unnoticed, as it has been.

[vegabass]

After driveing gecko........i had to peel my scalp off the head rest (hope i didnt stain it!)
and well the brakes on gecko..........gecko flat gecko not

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

The BF XR8 price has risen by $1,300 to more than $52K and now cannot compete with the VZ SSZ at $49,990. Meanwhile the SSZ comes fully equipped with leather, 18 inch alloys, premium brakes, sports binnacles and rear park sensors. Meanwhile, the XR8 is priced as a manual and asks for a further $1200 for the auto!

So we are expected to pay $1,300 extra for what? A new bumper? New seat fabric? Supposedly better fuel economy?

This is a disappointing move by Ford who have now officially given the budget performance game away and pushed the XR8 into the premium V8 sports sedan segment competing alongside the Calais and Fairmont Ghia.

Combined with a sluggish bottom end and a breathless top end as reported in Motor in the last couple of editions (admittedly these comments were about the FPV V8s, such as in the recent ute comparison) the XR8 is no longer an option for young boy racers seeking blistering V8 performance at a sub $50k price.

Ofcourse, people will talk about chassis balance and refinement, but performance weighs heavily on the minds of budget conscious performance buyers who want a car that can put down good track times, not preserve the weary bones of old men.

What do you guys think? Has Ford mistimed its price hike? Should they have at least provided a noticeable facelift? Should the price hike have been matched by a performance increase? Is the SSZ a better option? Will the BF be blown away by VE at this price?

Bizzare views....

Id rather see Ford responsibly pass on CPI type price rises where necessary than see them get into a price war to "buy" sales and go Broke like GM US are heading....
BFXR8 represents fantastic value, and if the extra's cost $1300 then so be it, $1300 represents roughly a 2.6% price rise, hardly unexpected in todays climate, inflation and the cost of manufacturing is ever increasing so prices can't stay still for ever.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

This is not meant to incite a flame war, just a debate so be nice people. The price hike is an interesting move and should at least be questioned.

My opening post was a bit harsh, but I just wanted to make sure that the new price did not go unnoticed, as it has been.

The prices are noticed! Your are talking to an audience many of who buy the things. You did not include one flattering thing about the new model. It's like claiming BAII was nothing more than Auto Headlamps.

The auto alone has more than a few 02,03,04 BA buyers considering an upgrade this can make a big difference to a saturated market and Falcon sales figures.

[Paxton]

The Auto alone has a 2004 model Territory owner waiting for a rainy day. My Auto is stuffed, and from my drive of the SY, I am amazed with the transformation. As has been said, $1,300 is a steal.

[big_waity]

Not much of a comparison really. I'd pay 10k more to own a falc over a bommadore. You're saying that it's not worth the price rise cause the new one isn't that much better than the old? You didn't take into account inflation or the fact that the Falcon is better than the commodore. Put a little more effort in next time.

[SpoolMan]

$1300 for a new ZF 6 speed auto, i would thing its a bargain priced upgrade..

[XR Martin]

Isnt the SSV just a special ediditon though? Like the Lumina

[Gadgetman]

dont forget the upgraded brakes on the xr8 as well

[ORSMF6]

well at least the Ford will be selling the XR8 after 01/01/06 .. where is the SS going to be .. i think on the scrap heap as they wont be able to sell them due to EURO3 laws .. how long will it take holden to comeup with a V8 for the SS ?? :gren:

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by big_waity

Not much of a comparison really. I'd pay 10k more to own a falc over a bommadore. You're saying that it's not worth the price rise cause the new one isn't that much better than the old? You didn't take into account inflation or the fact that the Falcon is better than the commodore. Put a little more effort in next time.

Inflation :
Falcon better than the commodore is an opinion
Put a little more effort in next time? I thought the post was a good one!
If you would pay 10k more to own a Falcon, then your severely one eyed.

I would rather a SSZ than the new xr8, purely because the SSZ is a limited edition and has the easily modifiable LS1....now if they would only get a descent auto, they would be laughing :

[Deadman]

in all honesty - I WOULD pay $10k more for a falcon than a commodore. (look at all those HSV drivers who would buy a GTS, before it was canned, over a GT-P ... $20k difference - not that much different about the cars)

The XR8 can afford to be priced that bit more than an SS. The question is - is the XR8 at least 10% better to justify the extra money? Easily.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Inflation :
Falcon better than the commodore is an opinion
Put a little more effort in next time? I thought the post was a good one!
If you would pay 10k more to own a Falcon, then your severely one eyed.

I would rather a SSZ than the new xr8, purely because the SSZ is a limited edition and has the easily modifiable LS1....now if they would only get a descent auto, they would be laughing :

You are right to a degree about one eyed opinions. Although whether the a $10K price break either way is the differentiation is again an opinion and dependant on the buyer.

most are fairly open minded, you will always find a majority Ford preference here, that should be obvious. But at the same time you will find many of Ford's harshest critics are its loyal fan base.

Each vehicle has pluses & minuses, each will have its own fans.

If you are talking one-eyed the opening post was nothing if not totally biased and derogatory of the XR8, given the user name that is very inflammatory. If it had been worded differently the replies may not have been so harsh.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Inflation :

So in your world there is no such thing as a cost of living increase? what about petrol prices rising? are you imune from this too?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Inflation :
Falcon better than the commodore is an opinion
Put a little more effort in next time? I thought the post was a good one!
If you would pay 10k more to own a Falcon, then your severely one eyed.

I would rather a SSZ than the new xr8, purely because the SSZ is a limited edition and has the easily modifiable LS1....now if they would only get a descent auto, they would be laughing :

And this limited edition will be limited to what number? Thats right, as many as they sell plus a few more. It is not limited, it is normal production, just been given a different name due to new series coming out. Mechanically the new falcon has more in terms of brakes and transmission by a long way, worth the extra price.

The SS will not be easily modifiable when it is euro3 compliant, if they do it. Remember, you are comparing a car that complies with the new rules with one that does not. Wait to the VE comes out and then do the gobbing off, if it has an 8!

I think this thread needs to be closed down as there is no way certain factions are going to be convinced. Let's just sit back a watch the sales talk! At the end of the day, who cares who thinks which car is better? My car is the best, when I get a new one, that one will be the best.

[KEV EB XR8]

You know in comparison, even as far back as the 50's, A basic model car was about the equivilent to a years wages.
Today you can buy a upspec car for round $52.000 , not all but most would be earning this sort of money

I personally dont think it is too much to ask !!!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by VZSS250

Should they have at least provided a noticeable facelift?

People in glass houses, my friend....

1998:


2000:


2003:


2005:


Having poked a little fun at the completely uninspired designs coming from the brains trust down at GMH, i think you raise a good point.

But you are talking about very small amounts of money. Let's consider the number of new car purchasees whose budget is so marginal that an additional $1300 prices them out of the market. If you can throw 50k at a car, you can throw 52k at a car. A euro 3 compliant is BF V8 is more than a stone's throw away from the BA and indeed - in a completely different league to the 6.0L pushrod V8 platform of its GMH equal.

Let us reserve final judgement for the VE. Let us examine the price differential when sophisticated engines, modern transmissions and EURO 3 compliant emissions systems are integrated into the commodore range.

2.6% guys - make a note of that number.

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So in your world there is no such thing as a cost of living increase? what about petrol prices rising? are you imune from this too?

I would not count inflation as an argument for for vs against in buying a Falcon, would you?

[geckoGT]

Where did this 10% come from? SS is not 10% cheaper than XR8!

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

[QUOTE=SSBUB]Inflation :

Yes , Inflation happenes all the time . Thats why things always get more expensive to buy ! Its the price we pay for technology.


If you would pay 10k more to own a Falcon, then your severely one eyed.

Ummmm.... I only see the price difference of around $2500 including the " 6SPEED AUTO ", not $10 000

I would rather a SSZ than the new xr8, purely because the SSZ is a limited edition and has the easily modifiable LS1..

Geeze , Whats so easily modifiable about an LS1 ?????????
Why ,in your opinion is the Boss not "easily" modifiable ?????????

[SSBUB]

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

And this limited edition will be limited to what number? Thats right, as many as they sell plus a few more. It is not limited, it is normal production, just been given a different name due to new series coming out. Mechanically the new falcon has more in terms of brakes and transmission by a long way, worth the extra price.

The SS will not be easily modifiable when it is euro3 compliant, if they do it. Remember, you are comparing a car that complies with the new rules with one that does not. Wait to the VE comes out and then do the gobbing off, if it has an 8!

I think this thread needs to be closed down as there is no way certain factions are going to be convinced. Let's just sit back a watch the sales talk! At the end of the day, who cares who thinks which car is better? My car is the best, when I get a new one, that one will be the best.

Read your 2nd paragraph. We are talking SSZ not SS. The SSZ is out now with the Ls1, so the euro3 compliance argument is out the window. As for the VE, who can fortune tell?

[jmc-007]

let me guess this right,

5.7ltr V8 SS 4SPD auto

or a

5.4ltr V8 XR8 6spd auto ZF !!!

:

Hrrm i dont know what one i would have :

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by geckoxr8

............................I think this thread needs to be closed down as there is no way certain factions are going to be convinced. .

That applies equally to both the Red & Blue factions!

There is no need to close the thread down while it remains civil.

A few of the usual suspects and a plethora of low post count users with GM based nicks insist on posting regular Ford Denigration, Holden Supremacy, or Holden V Ford posts, thus far this thread has remained well mannered. We don't need closed minds or attitudes from any corner.

[jmc-007]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

As for the VE, who can fortune tell?

Well looking at the VE eval cars from the Holden Employee's discount advert. It doesnt look much different to a VZ opps i mean VT :

[SSBUB]

[QUOTE=Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Originally Posted by SSBUB

Inflation :

Yes , Inflation happenes all the time . Thats why things always get more expensive to buy ! Its the price we pay for technology.


If you would pay 10k more to own a Falcon, then your severely one eyed.

Ummmm.... I only see the price difference of around $2500 including the " 6SPEED AUTO ", not $10 000

I would rather a SSZ than the new xr8, purely because the SSZ is a limited edition and has the easily modifiable LS1..

Geeze , Whats so easily modifiable about an LS1 ?????????
Why ,in your opinion is the Boss not "easily" modifiable ?????????

I was quoting someone else, read the post again:
10k was what someone else is willing to pay for a falcon over a commodore, not the actual real price difference....like i said you will have to go back in the threads to see that one.
And the reason i state the LS1 is easily modifiable because i have a wee bit of experience with it. Its cheap and can get great gains.
As for the Boss i wouldnt know. I dont pretend to know. For all i know it may be just as easy or cheap, but for me its a case of sticking to what i know, and for me the LS1 has plenty of go for the price of mods you can do for it.