Open Speed Limits

Timmeh · 19-02-2005, 09:46 PM

After spending many hours on Open Speed Limited roads going from Katherine to Darwin and back in the Northern Territory, there are a few things I'd like to raise about the policy.

Driving too fast
While the idea of having open speed limits means you can't be booked for breaking a speed limit, you can be booked at the discretion of any police officer if he thinks you were driving too fast for the conditions, ie dangerously. It means you don't have any hard line in the sand you can reference yourself too, it's your opinion versus the police's.

But that's not the only issue to contend with, there are a variety of others.

Pulling onto the road
Everyone has done it. Pull up at a stop sign, check for traffic, and go when it's clear. But on open speed limited roads, especially in the areas with twists and turns, it's not always possible to see that far down the street, and it means you need to get on the road and get your vehicle up to speed rather quickly because you may have a car bearing down on you at 150kmh that you just hadn't been able to see. And on the other hand, you may come around a corner and find a vehicle who has just pulled onto the road and taking their sweet time to get up to speed, meaning a 100kmh+ differential speed to arrest in a very short time,or if you're lucky, no oncoming traffic to pass them straight away.

Animals and tyre failures
The kangaroo is a great animal, as are buffalo, and wallabies. Except when they have an impromtu meeting with your vehicle. Needless to say, the higher the speed, the worse the result. Same goes for tyre failures, so it's something to bear in mind when deciding to sit on 200kmh.

Traffic
Wouldn't an open speed limit be good if you didn't have any obstacles in the way. This is not the case though, and quite often you'll come across a Camry or a truck doing 90 kmh, and most of the Open Speed Limited road I was on was only one lane each way. So while cruising at 150kmh (a generally acceptable speed, something that other factors will determine, that I'll get into soon), you might get someone in a Falcon tear past doing 200kmh or so, but you will also come across cars you need to pass. Which isn't a huge problem, except that you consider you're doing 150 odd kmh when you approach the traffic, and the oncoming traffic is doing a similar speed - you need a long stretch of road to pass, as the vehicles are closing on each other at 300 odd kmh! The consequences of getting this one wrong are incredibly tragic and dangerous, and to the unskilled or inexperienced driver, it would prove fatal, and has before.

Unfamiliar vehicle
Road trains are another obstacle to hurdle, as they are often 4 or more trailers long, and require a much longer concerted effort to pass. Which brings me to the point about driving an unfamiliar vehicle. While I have had much experience driving a range of vehicles at 'normal' speeds, how a vehicle is going to continue accelerating past 150kmh and onwards to just get past a Road Train is not something you really want to misjudge. Experience will teach you this, but considering anyone can jump into any vehicle and hit the open speed limited roads, it's certainly soemthing people need to be wary of.

Fuel economy
This is probably the biggest thing that determines how fast people go on the road. Sure, you can leave your foot in and drive your BA XR6T at 200kmh, run the risk that the cops won't care and that you won't come across any stationary traffic or animals, and hopefully get to Darwin in only two and half hours. Problem is, you'll be going thru the fuel faster than you can put it in. Obviously some cars can handle the higher speeds better than others, any 6 speed car comes to mind. Most people find a sweet spot in their car that they are happy to sit at, that won't be chewing thru the fuel terribly, and that usually determines how fast people go. The vehicle I was in was most happy at around 150kmh, not working overly hard, just a comfortable cruise speed.

So, do I think Open Speed Limits are a good idea?

They certainly make the long distance trips shorter, you never feel tired because you are more focused on what you are doing, the drive is more enjoyable, and all is well that ends well. But the consequences are alot more serious, and it's easier to inadvertantly get yourself into trouble if you are not on the case, inexperienced, or just trying to push your luck. I am glad not all our roads back in NSW are like that, because it would be just plain dangerous, but for the traffic levels here, it seems to work for people, and has been a good learning experience.

Tim!

Falchoon · 19-02-2005, 09:54 PM

Very constructive and imformative post Tim. :hihi:

svo347 · 19-02-2005, 09:57 PM

Very true & somewhat well written Timmeh.
Imagine having to drive 1500'ks with towns only every 500k's or so, and you had to sit on 110km/hr no wonder people fall asleep at the wheel.
another thing.. the sides of the road are very well cleared back making visibillity alot better than alot of roads ive been on.
Alot of newer cars should be able to sit on 150 km/hr quiet nicely really.
140km/hr Air con flat out , mate Ill get 600-650k's to a tank, Better than what is uses at 110.

Psycho Chicken · 19-02-2005, 09:58 PM

First off, good post Tim.

I think higher speed limits are a good idea, though not open.

I went to Bendigo last year, of course I know it was illegal but I sat on 120-130kph most of the way up, purely for better economy. I did give it a bit more just outside Bendigo, but looking at the trip comp it was going through WAY more fuel at 160 kph, let alone what it would of done at 200 kph. 130 kph was comfortable to cruise at even with a half shonky wheel allingment.

Of course I've never been to the NT so it's a bit of an apples and oranges case. What are the roads like up there? And what speed to the road trains generally sit on? You're right, I had no balls above 150 when I floored it. I was at WOT most of the time when doing anything higher and it takes a hell of a long bit of road to get it up there.

Mods feel free to edit that if I'm breaking any rules, other than road ones.

Timmeh · 19-02-2005, 10:03 PM

Road Trains are supposed to be speed limited to 110kmh, but in the hilly areas, they can be doing anything less than that, or slighty more. Which means you usually are passing them, nothing worse than sitting behind a cattle road train - bugs are bad enough on the front of the cars, but you can imagine having 4 trailers of cattle doing what nature asks of them... haha.

As svo347 said, in general the roads are well cleared so you can see fair distances most of the time, but some of the broken white line roads go over suspiciously hard to see past hills, so much discretion was used.

Psycho Chicken - I agree, cars just don't accelerate from 150kmh like they do from 100kmh, so you need to factor alot more time in for that, plus the higher distances needed to pass the longer road trains, and to also take into account the higher speed of oncoming traffic.

Tim

AusXH · 19-02-2005, 10:03 PM

Some good observations there Tim. The open speed limit's are definately not a sign to act stupid.

lv619 · 19-02-2005, 10:05 PM

Well obveously they are necessary for places like NT. Could you imagine being stuck behind a road train from alice springs to darwin because they were sitting on 95km/h in a 100 zone... it would take bloody ages trying to overtake it whilst staying within the speed limit. They would never work in a more populated area like vic or nsw, due to the fact that we dont need them.

Give it about 5 years or so and the do gooders will probably abolish the open speed limits in NT for the safety of the public... even though the NT road toll is one of the lowest in australia.

MO · 19-02-2005, 10:11 PM

Glad you enjoyed the experience I lived in the Territory for 16 yrs and the only problems I had while cruising at 180 to 200 were...

1.An old Nissan patrol with so much dirt in and on the indicators you could'nt see them working,result a lock up whilst overtaking and said vehicle turning right into bush track...need I say who were in it.

2.last year on trip back to the Territory picked up an eagle at 200,damn things take off in the direction they are facing and did'nt get up quick enough...result $700.00 for one headlight.

I don't where you've seen a road train in the Territory with more than 3 trailers in my experience only the mines around Clonclurry in Qld have these and they are short haul only.

Timmeh, try going the other way to The Alice...a much better run,I normally do Tennant Creek to Alice in about 3 hrs,510ks, it's not as tight or crowded as going north.

I might add that most of the prangs in the Territory are interstate or overseas visitors who have no idea about driving in the Territory.

Oh and one other thing if it was'nt for an inexperienced and intoxicated airman going back to Tindal from Katherine there would not be a speed limit from Tindal to Katherine,he lost it and killed himself.

By the way what do you train the Hornet pilots in.

svo347 · 19-02-2005, 10:13 PM

Legally you cannot get booked for overtaking & speeding at the same time.
I went to court for this exact same thing back in 1992 whilst on a motorbike.
Naturally when you are overtaking, you speed up to do it quickly & safely inwhich my case was pleaded on.
It was dismissed 15 mins into the hearing.

zetec · 19-02-2005, 10:15 PM

Things like roadkill could be abolishe on good dual carriageway lanes with 6ft fences either side - not a feasible idea however, although the road down from Taree to Sydney include a nifty animal-friendly section with overhead and under road passages for native critters. Shame it's both too late and too expensive to make it standard nationwide.

Brilliant Post Tim, I know I wouldn't trust our roads here with open speed limits purely because until they ban muppets from driving as far below the limit and many people want to drive over it, they'll take the safest option of the lowest common denominator. It's just unfortunate the lowest common denominator is in a beige Camry with the plaid hat on the rear parcel shelf...

Hawk · 19-02-2005, 10:17 PM

Great post Tim. I haven't ever been to NT, but will certainly think about what you have written should I ever drive there. Nice constructive posting.

MotherNatureVer2 · 19-02-2005, 10:19 PM

Great topic Tim ;)

I find that out in the bush even in NSW you get drivers who are more used to traffic & slow speeds cant handle a 110k/h speed limit ........... makes it very scary for us who use these roads all the time.

We get the road trains & roos & others out here & although the road trains are only 2 trailers long till Bourke they still require a greater understanding than most city drivers have ........

I think Tims post is making us remind ourselves that we are not all invincible & to take care on the roads ;)

Sylox · 19-02-2005, 10:22 PM

Very good post Tim

deankdx · 19-02-2005, 10:31 PM

i belive higher speed limits could benefit people on longer highway trips, probably upto 120km/h on main highways as 100kmh i'm so bored i read number plates and look at every car that goes past in both directions
as for open limits, i have not seen the situation in NT but i think 160 would be a happy medium for maximum speed, i'd love a couple of 5 km streches where i could legally wind it off the clock but do realise that the longer you are low FLYING the higher the chance of something going wrong.

good point about fuel economy as i remember before losing my licence more than 10 years ago doing 200kmh in a 351 and quite literally seeing the fuel guage dropping. car was quite stable, but if i had to swerve at that speed it wouldn't have been pretty

Steffo · 19-02-2005, 11:33 PM

I remember reading in wheels or motor... can't remember.. the director of AMG was in Australia for something. He was shocked at the 110km/h limit.. called it obsurd.. and said it was the reason people die on big open roads.. it bores you to sleep.

I can't see the problem with turning a big, multi-lane freeway into an Autobahn-esque thing.

RED_EL_XR8 · 19-02-2005, 11:37 PM

Our crappy roads are not Autobahns (where did the money go guys)but many bits of it 110Kph is dangerous through boredom.

A progressive Govt woult trial 140kph and 160 Kph section on many of our major highways if they wer the least bit concerned about road toll.

smciner1 · 19-02-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmeh

After spending many hours on Open Speed Limited roads going from Katherine to Darwin and back in the Northern Territory, there are a few things I'd like to raise about the policy.

Fuel economy
This is probably the biggest thing that determines how fast people go on the road. Sure, you can leave your foot in and drive your BA XR6T at 200kmh, run the risk that the cops won't care and that you won't come across any stationary traffic or animals, and hopefully get to Darwin in only two and half hours. Problem is, you'll be going thru the fuel faster than you can put it in. Obviously some cars can handle the higher speeds better than others, any 6 speed car comes to mind. Most people find a sweet spot in their car that they are happy to sit at, that won't be chewing thru the fuel terribly, and that usually determines how fast people go. The vehicle I was in was most happy at around 150kmh, not working overly hard, just a comfortable cruise speed.

Tim!

Good post.

/me goes and look for where he left Long Range 120 litre Fuel Tank.......

T_Terror · 19-02-2005, 11:57 PM

Anyone who cant handle 150 on a big open road like Melb to Geelong dosent have the basic skills to be on the road IMO.

RED_EL_XR8 · 20-02-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_Terror

Anyone who cant handle 150 on a big open road like Melb to Geelong dosent have the basic skills to be on the road IMO.

Subject to traffic of course.. And if Much of the 4 lane divided buts of the Hume Sydey/Melbourne aren't good for 150 then we are being duped.

Tote · 20-02-2005, 12:31 AM

A few thoughts:
I used to spend a lot of time in the back country of NSW, I found that 130 - 140 was a reasonable cruise speed. Any faster and the fuel economy became a problem as did the ability to take evasive action. Pity the speed limit was 110

:

Ive been on the Hume between Goulburn and Sydney at times when 110Km/h was way too fast, not necessarily because of the road condition but because of the amount of traffic. Bumper to bumper at 120 Km/h isnt my idea of fun.

Austrailians have no idea how to drive on multi lane roads. One of the few bits of proper multi lane road we have between Brisbane and the Gold coast is the scene of some of the worst driving I've seen. Lane 1, 100Km/h , lane 2 105 Km/h, lane 3 fluctuating between 100 and 120. and a queue of frustrated drivers getting agro behind..

The argument that the NT has to have open speed limits because of the isolation is a pretty thin one unfortunately. I've driven between Broome and Perth which is similar to the NT but the speed limit is 110Km/h it is a VERY boring trip, I suspect that the only reason the NT still has open speed limits is because enough of the population drive outside the major centres even if its the annual "trip home" and the pollies know they would be voted out if the speed limits were changed. Move the population of Canberra (or Sydney etc) 50 Km over the border and suddenly you have a large lot of people with no life experience who are able to be wooed by the sorts of arguments that the politicians in other states use. Hence WA with it's population centred in the south gets stupid speed limits everywhere else.

I can still remember when NSW had derestricted zones, unfortunately I was too young to drive.
Regards,
Tote

EB-maen · 20-02-2005, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Our crappy roads are not Autobahns

infrickendeed. the section of the m1 that is closest to me is narrower than a normal street and you cant go more than 2m without being assaulted by patches of 'touch-up' bitumen and uneven road levels, and there is also a dodgy concrete bridge/causeway where the sides come in even further so there is about 5cm space between the line and the barrier; i would sincerely dread being on it with a truck in the other lane. on a more people-related note, it is currently 'all the rage' to slowdown to 60 if you're turning off, but, while youre still on the highway. <-- stupidity. the gold coast isn't exactly a small town, so youd think the portion of the m1 that runs through it would be up to scratch

loxxr6 · 20-02-2005, 02:25 AM

Speaking of idiots slowing down on main roads, has anyone ever seen a person booked for driving too slow ??? It seems to me it's just another made up offence coz I don't think I've ever seen someone get done...

lv619 · 20-02-2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

Speaking of idiots slowing down on main roads, has anyone ever seen a person booked for driving too slow ??? It seems to me it's just another made up offence coz I don't think I've ever seen someone get done...

I think it would only be enforced if you had a ****ed off cop behind you at the time. Other than that, their would not really be any other means of enforcing the law, just like the "keep left unless overtaking" one...

No doubt though, Brack$y will have some "slow cameras" on the drawing board for the future to help boost the government coffers etc, LOL.

oneredED · 20-02-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Speaking of idiots slowing down on main roads, has anyone ever seen a person booked for driving too slow ??? It seems to me it's just another made up offence coz I don't think I've ever seen someone get done...

I've been pulled up for doing 79 in a 100 zone, 1/2 an hour from anywhere. The cop asked why i was going so slow, and i said the speedo must be whacked. (i forgot i was actually legally limited to 80kmh at the time and the cop never noticed it on my licence)

What happened from my point of view:
Doing burnouts down the bottom of a huge hill (3am, hadn't seen another car for 1/2 an hour of driving at 100kmh), and then tried to flog a sign that had my name on it (as you do :P). Thought better of our actions, and decided to drive on up the hill. A car came over the crest and pulled us over as we were still accelerating. Good thing too, it allowed the smoke to clear LOL. He said i was going too slow, but little does he know i would have been speeding 5 seconds later!

JADED6 · 20-02-2005, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmeh

The consequences of getting this one wrong are incredibly tragic and dangerous, and to the unskilled or inexperienced driver, it would prove fatal, and has before

I think that would prove fatal for anyone getting it wrong.

Great thread, all the replies were very good to read.
Haven't driven the mentioned roads, I do hope they are in good condition though as even country roads 30mins from Adelaide are quite poor and hitting a pot hole at 150 would be a worry.

lv619 · 20-02-2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneredED

I've been pulled up for doing 79 in a 100 zone, 1/2 an hour from anywhere. The cop asked why i was going so slow, and i said the speedo must be whacked. (i forgot i was actually legally limited to 80kmh at the time and the cop never noticed it on my licence)

What happened from my point of view:
Doing burnouts down the bottom of a huge hill (3am, hadn't seen another car for 1/2 an hour of driving at 100kmh), and then tried to flog a sign that had my name on it (as you do :P). Thought better of our actions, and decided to drive on up the hill. A car came over the crest and pulled us over as we were still accelerating. Good thing too, it allowed the smoke to clear LOL. He said i was going too slow, but little does he know i would have been speeding 5 seconds later!

Hehe, that sounds like something me and my mates would do. Did you end up getting the sign? lol.

oneredED · 20-02-2005, 08:07 PM

No didn't get it, we even had spanners out and everything, but it had some security thing on the top (wtf? it was in the middle of nowhere!) and so we gave up. We did however have some other fun that night... It's probably a good thing the officer didn't want any of the pizza (we did offer) that we had on the back seat, as it's box was ummmm, helping hide a decent quantity of signs...

Disclaimer: This story should be considered fictional. No illegal activities referred to here occured, involving myself or anyone i know ;)

outback_ute · 21-02-2005, 04:05 PM

Good food for thought Tim. Re comparisons to autobahns, the newer sections of the Hume Hwy for example would be better than plenty of autobahns - I understand the "design" speed was 140km/h. Something to consider is that most "normal" autobahn traffic sits on 140-160km/h (similar to Tote's observations if you take into account more aerodynamic & fuel efficient cars).

NAK302 · 21-02-2005, 05:18 PM

i spent half my life in the NT, in fact i got my drivers licence up there. i lived in a town that didn't have traffic lights or round abouts (didn't have telly til 1978 either). speeding was never an issue with the local coppers, unless you were an idiot around town. trips from Darwin to Katherine in less than 2 hours were not uncommon. i just hope some fat cat dosn't one day try and make a name for themselves by campaining against it, or get too many clowns from down south killing themselves up there and speed being blamed.