Fog lights automatically on with high beam

[desGT]

Yesterday went down to auto electrician in Box Hill (MLB) (Boomerang, recommended by dealer) with my BF and had the fog lights wired into high beam (normal or flash). All other switches/lights work as normal. Do NOT drive around with them on (unless it is foggy??) and it made sense to incorporate them into high beam.

They had 2 approaches. 1) was cheaper, put a relay and extra wiring under dash, 2) was to incorporated in under bonnet fuse box. Took "2)", and was only $65.

Why do Ford not give us this obvious (to me) option?

[Des]

Because high beam is useless in fog or dust. Bespoke foglights aren't.
Depends on what state your in inregards to the use of these lights. There's been more than a few umm 'discussions' on this topic here before.

[BlueRaven]

Yeah, I would have thought that too.

If you put on high beam in fog, you won't be able to see a thing.

[desGT]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

Yeah, I would have thought that too. If you put on high beam in fog, you won't be able to see a thing.

Fog lights still work normally through the switch, so I can turn them on/off with parkers or normal (dipped) beam. The only difference is that the fog lights come on automatically with HIGH beam.

No, I would not use high beam in fog, I can use the foggies as normal.

That is for the 3-4 days/year they would be needed for fog.

Now, when I go high beam, I get a little extra.

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by desGT

Now, when I go high beam, I get a little extra.

Thats not a bad idea.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Good idea, i turn mine on to when ive got the highbeam on, but usually turn them off when theres traffic around. If im out in the bush i leave them on all the time, even at night time as they make the sides of the road more visable - wildlife etc.

[desGT]

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Good idea, i turn mine on to when ive got the highbeam on, but usually turn them off when theres traffic around. If im out in the bush i leave them on all the time, even at night time as they make the sides of the road more visable - wildlife etc.

I still have that option, as well as being able to dip (if fog switch not on), or to flash those silly buggers in the city who need to see the left kerb (from the right lane of course).

[aquahead2001]

I think there's a law against driving with your fog lights on when there's no fog.... Well, in Victoria anyway! Here there's a law against just about anything to do with cars though!

[Black XR6]

Gotta say I dont appreciate being blinded by inconsiderate people who drive around with fog lighs and high beams on. Sure, you switch em down when you remember to but by then I am blinded and have that redish tinge to everything, including the tree im about to run into.

This is one law that needs enforcing more strictly.

[Des]

Originally Posted by desGT

Fog lights still work normally through the switch, so I can turn them on/off with parkers or normal (dipped) beam. The only difference is that the fog lights come on automatically with HIGH beam.

No, I would not use high beam in fog, I can use the foggies as normal.

That is for the 3-4 days/year they would be needed for fog.

Now, when I go high beam, I get a little extra.

Sorry, mis-understood how you've got them set up. Sounds like an interesting idea though.

[Mechan1k]

I think a few people are missing the point here.

Des has hooked his fog lights up with his high beam for flash/passing and also for highbeam usage in empty roads.

He hasn't done this mod for intentionally blinding people as Black XR6 had mentioned ... DesGT will obviously dip highbeam when a vehicle approaches (within line of sight) and no do as you mention.

And as Aquahead2001 mentioned about the fog light law ... is kinda similar to the high beam law ... there's a time and place for highbeam and fog lights ... fog lights will be off when there is no fog (as DesGT mentioned) ... they will only come on when highbeam is engaged (ie: no one within sight to annoy/distract/dazzle).

Common sense people.

After reading the reasons for the mod ... I think it's a pretty good one ... something I would undertake if i had foglights ... especially where I live ... it's pitch black at night with hardly any reflectors and no lights ... with an abundance of wildlife ... the more light the better I say.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

IAnd as Aquahead2001 mentioned about the fog light law ...

FYI - That's a state specific law to. In QLD, there's no law about fog lights (yet).

Having the fog lights wired up to work as driving lights does open a question on legalities. Driving lights have to be mounted within certain dimensions, and I think you will find fog lights, by law, are mounted lower than driving lights can legally be. so that makes this mod illegal.

[XR6-VCT-2000]

Originally Posted by devil cv8

Having the fog lights wired up to work as driving lights does open a question on legalities. Driving lights have to be mounted within certain dimensions, and I think you will find fog lights, by law, are mounted lower than driving lights can legally be. so that makes this mod illegal.

If that is the law (and i'm NOT quoting YOU on this) ...but ...
lol , the main headlights on a mini aren't much further apart or higher than the foglights on a normal car ...lol , so how can they justify that rule ? ..lol

Gee even 4wd's have foglights and spotlights mounted everyhwere but in the cabin itself ..lol

[desGT]

Originally Posted by devil cv8

Having the fog lights wired up to work as driving lights does open a question on legalities. Driving lights have to be mounted within certain dimensions, and I think you will find fog lights, by law, are mounted lower than driving lights can legally be. so that makes this mod illegal.

From what I read in

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf...e/VSI%2010.pdf

("Page 19 of 83" in the bottom PDF window, or page 14 at bottom of document)

there is no such law against using the fog lights as driving lights provided they are used the same as high-beam (which I have done).

It makes sense!!

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by devil cv8

Having the fog lights wired up to work as driving lights does open a question on legalities. Driving lights have to be mounted within certain dimensions, and I think you will find fog lights, by law, are mounted lower than driving lights can legally be. so that makes this mod illegal.

Even if the mod was illegal (which I cant see how), No one would know becasue when there is a car coming towards him he will dim is high's which in turn will turn of the fog lamps. So they will not effect anyone.

[ebxr8240]

Fog lights generally are not strong lights..There's no point in having fog lights on when high beam is activated as high beam is useless in fog conditions..Some people maybe fitting driving lights in place of fog lights..However sometimes a fog light is o/k on high beam on light fogy conditions..In some counties you are required by law to have lights on in daylight..Canada for instance have small low wattage driving lights in there cars that come on when engine is started..Good idea imo...Fog lights as fitted to WRX's are not blinding and they work on hi and low beam...HOWEVER some people replace these with driving lights..You can tell by the clear lenses....

[desGT]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Fog lights generally are not strong lights..There's no point in having fog lights on when high beam is activated as high beam is useless in fog conditions

You are certainly allowed your opinion, but to categorically state "There's no point" is wrong! I obviously thought there WAS a point, as I tested it all out using the switches to simulate the change, and while the difference was not huge/blinding/etc, there was some gain, and therefore I thought there "was a point".

Who said anything about using high beam in fog?

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by desGT

Who said anything about using high beam in fog?

Thats right desGT never said that he was going to use high beam in fog.

Fog lights are not that bright but they do show up the sides of the road. Which is why desGT got it done in the first place.

[seano14]

Originally Posted by desGT

You are certainly allowed your opinion, but to categorically state "There's no point" is wrong! I obviously thought there WAS a point, as I tested it all out using the switches to simulate the change, and while the difference was not huge/blinding/etc, there was some gain, and therefore I thought there "was a point".

Who said anything about using high beam in fog?

i think it's a good idea mate. also as you say you dont drive past people with high beams on anyway so the issue of fog lights shining in people's eyes simply doesnt exist.

and if turning fog lights on whilst at high beam is an improvement to the visibility then why the hell not wire them up!

[Black XR6]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

I think a few people are missing the point here.

Des has hooked his fog lights up with his high beam for flash/passing and also for highbeam usage in empty roads.

He hasn't done this mod for intentionally blinding people as Black XR6 had mentioned ... DesGT will obviously dip highbeam when a vehicle approaches (within line of sight) and no do as you mention.

And as Aquahead2001 mentioned about the fog light law ... is kinda similar to the high beam law ... there's a time and place for highbeam and fog lights ... fog lights will be off when there is no fog (as DesGT mentioned) ... they will only come on when highbeam is engaged (ie: no one within sight to annoy/distract/dazzle).

Common sense people.

After reading the reasons for the mod ... I think it's a pretty good one ... something I would undertake if i had foglights ... especially where I live ... it's pitch black at night with hardly any reflectors and no lights ... with an abundance of wildlife ... the more light the better I say.

I didnt mis-understand anything. When he has his high beam on his fog lights are one. And he will always remember to dip them when a car comes into his line of sight. Still dosnt change the fact its illegal as far as I know and dosnt change the fact lights that bright on someone even for a few moments can blind them. Possibly causing an accident. My opinion still stands.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by desGT

Yesterday went down to auto electrician in Box Hill (MLB) (Boomerang, recommended by dealer) with my BF and had the fog lights wired into high beam (normal or flash). All other switches/lights work as normal. Do NOT drive around with them on (unless it is foggy??) and it made sense to incorporate them into high beam.

Right. . .

They had 2 approaches. 1) was cheaper, put a relay and extra wiring under dash, 2) was to incorporated in under bonnet fuse box. Took "2)", and was only $65.

Why do Ford not give us this obvious (to me) option?

Simply because they (the actual lamps) are Compliance coded as "front fog lights". The designation "02B" or "B" will be seen on the lens next to the E mark. The true driving lights, are those inboard portions of the headlights ("R").

REMEMBER: The effective range of front fog lights is typically 10 - 35 metres out, to a maximum 50 metres. They have that unique 'wide and flat' beam shape that will show for the driver - 'close-in', SIDE-of-road visibility WITH REDUCED forward glare when compared to even low-beam.

BEAR in mind that at 100km/h your at 28 metres per second.

It is almost akin to using a Cornering Lamp as a front fog or driving lamp, each has its own beam characteristic and purpose. You can image IF daytime running lamps are mandated, the various "MODS" that will happen under these terrors.

( www.lightsout.org )

IN REAR LIGHTING for example; some fools use a rear fog lights as additional brake-lights. DOING SO directly contravenes ADR 49/00 (& NVS) in relation to brake-light photometrics. Basically rear fogs are brighter. This sort of modification can land you a defect.

YES, you as driver will see the fog light beam pattern with your high-beam on, AND YES the fog light beam is also competing with the genuine driving light portion of your headlamps, BUT it will be by nature of the modification LIGHTER close-in to the car. The impact here can be on eye fatigue on long trips at night, and you can - if obsessed or distracted by close-in vision, effectively miss something further afield - perhaps hundreds of metres up the road.

Basically you need 'dark' close in, and 'light' out far when on driving lights. Brightening up the nearby environment effectively risks masking what your driving lights would otherwise show. AND as a VW chap at aus.cars once said, at speed with fog lights by the time you've seen 'something' in the field of view of the front fog, you've hit it.

If people want to improve their high beam performance, do so by replacing the bulbs with say PLUS 30 or 50 variety, or installing a set of dedicated driving lights onto say a number plate light support bar.

POSITION: No offence is made replacing a front fog light set with dedicated high-beam alternative, in the usual fog light position in the lower bar area, but you cannot on the other hand install a front fog light higher than the low-beam headlight position.

Basically, front fog lights make lousy driving lights in the same way driving lights make for lousy fogs.

ONE advantage: At night, on a dark winding mountainous road when on high-beam, where speed by nature of the road will be reduced, here you need not the modification in any case to obtain benefit of the wide, fan shaped fog beam pattern.

BLACK XR6 above, the glare factor: FRONT fog lights ARE NOT seen 200 - 1,000 metres on approach to a car with its high-beams headlights on, but it does 'have technical issues at law' and potential safety impact elsewhere in the light field, and another potential - should an approaching car rise a CREST to meed the modded vehicle.

I should say, we don't need front fog lights, but the rear should be mandatory, 'just in case'. Then I'll fine you $500 if you mis use em if I get my way in NSW!

[Wokkas]

I got done last year on the way to Bathurst 1000 in Cowra for driving with fog lights on.

$75 fine. First thing I did was contact the RAA legal team. They told me:

"Driving with fog-lights on, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES other than in fog/rain (at which the level of such fog/rain warranting use is at the police's discretion), is an offence IN ALL STATES AND TERRITORIES of Australia".

I was furious, as the only reason I was using them was to make my car more visible and thus safer on the hwy. The money didn't annoy me, but the fact that this was my 1st driving infringment in 30 years for something so petty.

When I got back to Adelaide I sought legal advice from a solicitor. I was told the exact same thing the RAA told me. Also contacted the NRMA, only to get the same answer. I asked about calling them driving lights as an excuse. NO GOOD; Driving lights must be mounted on the same plane as the headlights and if factory fitted, must not be classed as "fog lights" in owners manual.

Sorry, bit long-winded, but them's the facts

[GT-E]

Des,
I do not suppose you know how they made the foggies work with highbeam ?
I have a BF F6 and would like to do the same mod, but I am in sydney.
I think it is a great idea as it uses the useless foglights. They only seem to light the road 4ft in front of the car, the XR6 I had before was much better.
Oh and for people interested the FPV BF's use a H11 globe in the spotlights that seem impossible to buy in the +50 range, which sucks as they look yellow in comparison to the normal headlights/highbeams that I have replaced with the Osram +50 globes.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Wokkas

$75 fine. First thing I did was contact the RAA legal team. They told me:

"Driving with fog-lights on, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES other than in fog/rain (at which the level of such fog/rain warranting use is at the police's discretion), is an offence IN ALL STATES AND TERRITORIES of Australia".

I was furious, as the only reason I was using them was to make my car more visible and thus safer on the hwy. The money didn't annoy me, but the fact that this was my 1st driving infringment in 30 years for something so petty.

When I got back to Adelaide I sought legal advice from a solicitor. I was told the exact same thing the RAA told me. Also contacted the NRMA, only to get the same answer. I asked about calling them driving lights as an excuse. NO GOOD; Driving lights must be mounted on the same plane as the headlights and if factory fitted, must not be classed as "fog lights" in owners manual.

Sorry, bit long-winded, but them's the facts

I think there's a bit of BS from the companies involved, as I know there is no law in QLD like that. (However there are for other states - but they are state specific laws). You can use fog lights up here any time you want in any conditions. AFAIK they actually discussed changing that recently - but nothing has happened as of yet.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by Deadman

I think there's a bit of BS from the companies involved, as I know there is no law in QLD like that. (However there are for other states - but they are state specific laws). You can use fog lights up here any time you want in any conditions. AFAIK they actually discussed changing that recently - but nothing has happened as of yet.

CORRECT Deadman - The ARR's look set for a prohibition on the use of front fog lights in clear weather conditions within weeks or months.

AT THE MOMENT: ONLY NSW and WA have STATE SPECIFIC regulations prohibiting the use of front fog lights in clear weather conditions. Wokkas, AR Rule 217 DOES prohibit front fog light abuse, perhaps this is what the RAA person was reading.

But the RAA???? advice in relation to front fog lights was incorrect in that regard, except for NSW and WA, but willl be correct with time for all jurisdictions. If that happens, our national rule will then mirror EU.

ZapXR6T - Give the market time, my view is that you'll get H11's in Plus 30 or 50 in time, just early days is all.

Wokkas: If you want to make the car more visible, use low beam or DRL's. Something you can do here: "DIM-DIP" Basically, its low-beam at half intensity. A UK regulation that my Seat Toledo UK spec has, basically you put the car headlight switch to the 'park'-sidelights position, and the low beam lights up at that half-level. Bulb life I have found is not an issue. This also means the front indicators are not masked by full low beam.

NRMA information relating to positioning was incorrect, all else was accurate.

Your from SA, if you choose not to pay the fine, you will NOT lose points or license as the rule does not exist in SA legislation. The bill however would be chased in the usual manner of debts.