Smartcard - what is you opinion?

[Falcon Freak]

The Hawke government tried to launch the "Australia Card" (compulsory photo ID card for all Australian residents) in the late 1980s without any success. For the younger members of AFF here is some information - Link 1, Link 2 & Link 3.

Now because of the yankees invading and occupying Iraq we live in an increasingly anal retentive society. Therefore it appears that the Smartcard (i.e. Australia Card 2) will be thrust upon us.

What do you think of this?

FF

[Polyal]

I really dont care..I, like everyone else carry a drivers licence, bank cards etc etc, one more wont hurt. And if there are some positives to come from it then why not.

Its not like we will be the only ones doing it.

If you have something to hide then thats the only reason I can see why someone would object.

[Bluefreak]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I really dont care..I, like everyone else carry a drivers licence, bank cards etc etc, one more wont hurt. And if there are some positives to come from it then why not.

Its not like we will be the only ones doing it.

If you have something to hide then thats the only reason I can see why someone would object.

Agreed... Every scareck of information about you is already on one computer or another anyway... I could really care less...

[Laminge]

What makes you think we dont have that system in place now?

[BlueRaven]

What im afraid of is that the Smart Card will eventually intergrate systems. As previously mentioned, yourself as a person exists on seperate databases all over the country. The smart card could lead the way to merging those together. Therefore, within a few seconds anyone in the know could find out your bank details, where you live, what car you drive, your credit history, your super plan, mobile phone.. everything and anything.

Apart from identity theft, why is this bad? Well, imagine facial recognition. Imagine being tracked anywhere you go...being constantly updated.

Going further down the line (like 20yrs), I fear that the ID card will become an id chip that is planted....meaning you will never need a wallet ever again. All information about you will be walking with you. Imagine the possibilities of that....a walking prisoner. With nano technology, your health could be monitored, you could be found out for taking illegal drugs in minutes. In seconds, a lethal toxin could be released into your body in a small dose to paralise you if you brake the law.

I know, its all fantasy but i'm only worried because the technology to do all of these things exists. Easily.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

The Hawke government tried to launch the "Australia Card" (compulsory photo ID card for all Australian residents) in the late 1980s without any success. For the younger members of AFF here is some information - Link 1, Link 2 & Link 3.

Now because of the yankees invading and occupying Iraq we live in an increasingly anal retentive society. Therefore it appears that the Smartcard (i.e. Australia Card 2) will be thrust upon us.

What do you think of this?

FF

The difference between than and now, is the media and government is pushing this were all going to get blow up by the arab rubbish. So what we should do is give up the apparent "reason" were over there fighting for freedom. So now people wont be so outraged by this.

Oh and by the way, before you start flaming me and saying I'm a this and that and when it does happen you'll start blaming the government that something should have been done. Let me start by saying, I'm expecting for an attack to occur, cause there's always some idiot who will follow like a sheep. But I'd rather die than give up my civil rights. If I'll go to war and put my life on the line to keep this country free than I'll gladly be blown up so at the end of the day people can stand up when there is injustice in this country. This is my opinion and I'm thankful I can say this without being detained because it's not agreeing with the government.

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

Apart from identity theft, why is this bad? Well, imagine facial recognition. Imagine being tracked anywhere you go...being constantly updated.

There was interesting article in the age a few months back where they could actually track a person (in melb) using the persons mobile and the speed camera's and road camera's that are located around melb.

[AWD Chaser]

bah. Anyone has access to most of your information as it is, so long as they have the authority....

Even if all the info sytems were merged into one database system, only the relevant people and companies will have access to particular parts of the information... think of an online Forum... you have guests, users, power users, admins... depending on your user level, you only have access to certain info...
Although most computer systems have their bugs and security holes, I would rather trust a computer system then a persons good will....

I agree with the smartcard... after being on centerlink for a while, you have a few cards and a pile of info you need to remember... just makes it easy for those on government benifts to access the services provided to them eaiser...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Yay another ID card, who gives a , no different to a drivers licence except hopefully they make it a little more classy.

Those who want to hide their identity / information however will come undone, which is great as its only going to reduce criminal activity.

[fiery]

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Yay another ID card, who gives a , no different to a drivers licence except hopefully they make it a little more classy.

I have to agree.. I hope they let us have a decent pic on it if a pic is to be included... I hate my DL pic... :(

I personally don't care if we have it or not..

[NAK302]

the system is there already. its not a card, its a number.

[4.9 EF Futura]

I dont see the perceived evil about it. Medicare, centrelink etc. i really dont think thee's any problems with government departments sharing information.

[brenx]

A smart card is a bad idea for one reason. That is identity theft. How easy would it be for someone to get their hands on your card (your info) rip it off and reprogram it into another card. It's extremely easy to do.

They'll have safe gaurds to prevent this but it's a matter of time before people can do it. Just like credit cards etc etc. They can swipe/read your card and you'd never know.

Won't get my vote. I like to keep my personal info between myself and whomever I have business with. Centralising all info is a bad mistake.

[Work Horse]

Anyone who claims "honest people have nothing to fear", when in a democracy our government increases it's ability to watch us all, should; get a hair cut, put on a tie, take a seat quietly at the back of the room and start taking notes on the people they work with.

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

I dont see the perceived evil about it. Medicare, centrelink etc. i really dont think thee's any problems with government departments sharing information.

this already happens, how do you think the CSA know how much the payer earns per year? its called a tax file number. CSA's reference number is....drum roll...............your tax file number :

i definetly have a problem with that.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Anyone who claims "honest people have nothing to fear", when in a democracy our government increases it's ability to watch us all, should; get a hair cut, put on a tie, take a seat quietly at the back of the room and start taking notes on the people they work with.

Anyone who really thinks the governmnet has nothing better to do with its time and money than screw the people of its country should stop reading George Orwell and unroll their tinfoil hats.

Big Brother has better things to do with his time.

Brenx raises very good points regarding the security issues of a centralised card.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

....

Even if all the info sytems were merged into one database system, only the relevant people and companies will have access to particular parts of the information... think of an online Forum... you have guests, users, power users, admins... depending on your user level, you only have access to certain info...
Although most computer systems have their bugs and security holes, I would rather trust a computer system then a persons good will....

......

Unless of course one of these govt departments decides to outsource some of this work to save a few bucks when the budget gets tight.

And the outsourcing company was in a country like India, and sold peoples data....

But that would never happen....would it.

[Sainter]

More big brother crap from the government. I'm just gonna try and avoid it.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Anyone who really thinks the governmnet has nothing better to do with its time and money than screw the people of its country should stop reading George Orwell and unroll their tinfoil hats.

Big Brother has better things to do with his time.

Brenx raises very good points regarding the security issues of a centralised card.

The quote I plagiarised (Edward R Murrow?), refers to the very real events during McCathyism in the USA, not Orwells 1984. It's easy to see how the mistake could be made. :

It's just a card Work Horse get over yourself!! How much could it hurt!!

What we value too little, we give up too easily.

What value do we put on our freedom, every little bit of it.

[ltd]

Would be a good way to cut down on fraud either through medicare or social security. Did you know some people are claiming up to 25 seperate unemployment benefits through having multiple identities?
Or that there is an industry of being paid a few hundred bucks to loan your medicare card to a visitor to the country requiring serious surgery?

At the end of the day we all pay for this fraud and I for one would like it to stop.

[guym]

I don't like it, but lets face it most of peoples fears are already being done. The comparison of data. Already done with sharing of data between social security and tax, sharing of criminal data between states and commonwealth, sharing of data between driver licences and electrol commision etc. This sort of stuff has been going on for year. When labour tried it on I was dead against it. Now still dead against it but a lot of what they want to be able to do with the card they are already doing this will just stream line it and make it easier so apathy has struck and what the hell why not bring it in, combining medicare, licences, social security, ATO, credit cards, so I only have one card for everything. Then when I loose it I am as they say up the well known creek in a barbed wire canoe.

[megsy]

I say yes as long as it replaces all of government systems currently in place at the moment, ie drivers licence, other licences, tax info, centrelink ect but it must be absoloutly safe and proven to be safe

[brenx]

Nothing electronic (computerised) is safe. They all have to be linked someway ;)

[ronwest]

John Howard is right. As long as our wallets are healthy Australians will roll over and accept what's dished out.
I can't believe in a short 30 years just how conservative we've become.

Anyhoo, given that JH has got it right, welcome to Smartcard.

Let's do ourselves a favour and not suffer any future mental problems or hereditary health problems. Chances are our employment prospects will decrease significantly.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by ronwest

Let's do ourselves a favour and not suffer any future mental problems or hereditary health problems. Chances are our employment prospects will decrease significantly.

Lol - i saw that movie the other night. Brilliant

Where would the detractors of the australian government be without hollywood?!?!?

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Where would the detractors of the australian government be without hollywood?!?!?

If that is meant to diminish my opinion then you are a little wide of the mark.

Chances are I watch a lot less tv/movies than most ppl including you.
In fact, I haven't a clue to which movie you refer?

My statement was based on the *fact* (not scripted pap) that the head of the Smartcard development team, Kelleher?? (and a believer in the Smartcard) has resigned due to problems he has in the way the card is to be administered (privacy/security issues).

[Yaw]

I personally cannot wait for it.
I do nothing illeagle so I am not worried about my "privacy" what a load of BS that excuse is.
What it will do is bring welfare fraud down by integrating centrelink, tax files and records, customs and immigration and banking details.
People like my ex will finally get caught for these things.
My ex is on a newstart allowance. Prior to September last year she was on a single parenting pension, (i might add also during the 13 years of our marraige she refused for 9 years to give up the pension and made out we were seperated but living together, by having a bedroom for me set up in the garage.) (yes I know I am guilty for going along with it but as they say love is blind and I did not want her to get into trouble at the time, I tried sevral times to get her to let them know otherwise)
Hence she has not worked in over 25 years, but yet has the means to go overseas to america 3 times a year????
She does volunteer work for st vinnies and gets paid a travel allowance she does not claim and whenever they get some kind of great donation (like wedding dress's) she will price it at $5 buy it herself and sell it on ebay for a few hundred.
This is the sort of scum sucking fraudster it will finally catch.
The reason she is on newstart now instead of a pensionis my daughter started living with me because it was too inconvient to look after her when she wants to go overseas.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by ronwest

If that is meant to diminish my opinion then you are a little wide of the mark.

Chances are I watch a lot less tv/movies than most ppl including you.
In fact, I haven't a clue to which movie you refer?

My statement was based on the *fact* (not scripted pap) that the head of the Smartcard development team, Kelleher?? (and a believer in the Smartcard) has resigned due to problems he has in the way the card is to be administered (privacy/security issues).

Apologies ron, it is difficult to convey "tongue in cheek" over an online forum. However, you are correct in your assumption regarding my intake of television. 11 hours at work, 1 hour of travel, 6 hours of TV and 6 hours of sleep Repeat 5 times per week.

RE: the smartcard taskforce, James Kelaher resigned as he "did not agree with the rushed approach taken towards such a sensitive issue"...

Altho the responsible minister claimed the resignation was a result of Kelaher being knocked back after offering his services to head the taskforce up for another 6 months.

I'd suggest that the *facts* lie somewhere between the two.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Apologies ron, it is difficult to convey "tongue in cheek" over an online forum.

no probs, I'm not the sensitive type but a would have given me more of a clue ;)

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

RE: the smartcard taskforce, James Kelaher resigned as he "did not agree with the rushed approach taken towards such a sensitive issue"...

...which if you saw him interviewed (I think on Lateline) relates to the administration of the card (read: privacy/security issues)

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Altho the responsible minister claimed the resignation was a result of Kelaher being knocked back after offering his services to head the taskforce up for another 6 months.

Which means that if Kelaher were onside would not be an issue.

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

I'd suggest that the *facts* lie somewhere between the two.

they usually do... the bias depends on our political persuasion