What's changed about our petrol?

**Captain Stubing** · 10-09-2007, 06:27 PM

I pulled out the mower this morning, after recent rain made the grass grow a little. Last time I used the mower, it still had fuel in the tank, and the fuel 'dipstick' has been soaking in the 2-stroke fuel for months.

The 'dipstick' on the old Victor is made of a clear plastic or acrylic, and seems to have been dissolving, or breaking down.

Has anyone else seen this sort of thing? I was wondering if it's a higher solvent level in the fuel sold now...

tapeworm · 10-09-2007, 06:37 PM

lol, wtf?

fmc351 · 10-09-2007, 06:58 PM

Where did you buy the fuel? Wasnt there some thing about serovs/suppliers thinning fuel with 'thinners' or similar type things that are cheaper than fuel?

Wasnt thinners, but something equally disturbing anyway.

**Captain Stubing** · 10-09-2007, 07:00 PM

Fuel was bought from the local Shell servo, mixed with 2stroke oil purchased from the same place.

fmc351 · 10-09-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

Fuel was bought from the local Shell servo, mixed with 2stroke oil purchased from the same place.

Id like to know which one so I can avoid it.

Doesnt sound good anyway. There might be another reason for it, i just remember seeing some whoopla about servos thinning petrol with less than, well petrol.

**Captain Stubing** · 10-09-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Id like to know which one so I can avoid it.

Doesnt sound good anyway. There might be another reason for it, i just remember seeing some whoopla about servos thinning petrol with less than, well petrol.

If you're on the northside, don't fill up on Old Northern Road, then...

This mower has seen at least 20 years service, strange it's never happened before!

Nostalgia · 10-09-2007, 07:12 PM

Too much Ethanol ? High levels of Ethanol will eat plastic.

**Captain Stubing** · 10-09-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

Too much Ethanol ? High levels of Ethanol will eat plastic.

Guessing that the ethanol is added at the refinery, then a lot of servos would have got the same mixture, meaning lots of old Victas would have been affected.

I'm wondering if any parts of the car's fuel system might have been affected :(

Nostalgia · 10-09-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swanny

Guessing that the ethanol is added at the refinery, then a lot of servos would have got the same mixture, meaning lots of old Victas would have been affected.

I'm wondering if any parts of the car's fuel system might have been affected :(

True but only time will tell. There has been reports of damage to cars. If anyone has a link to the Ethanol debate it would be appreciated.

dave351cid · 10-09-2007, 08:11 PM

wow. ..... that is bad.

wander what it does to plastic parts in the car fuel system, like filters and seals.

**aussiblue** · 10-09-2007, 10:26 PM

Some servos have also sometimes been caught illegally diluting their fuel with drums of toluene and hexane/hexene. These are both normal fuel additives but reduce the servos fuel cost and cause problems when the amount used is increased above normal levels. Toluene is also an octane booster so is also sometime added to counter poor fuel performance when water gets into the servos storage tanks.

see http://www.openroad.com.au/motoring_..._fuelguide.asp

Quote:

Warning: adulterated fuel
Occasionally, there are allegations, sometimes proved by analysis, of petrol and diesel fuel adulterated with other compounds being sold at the bowser.

Additives commonly include toluene in petrol and heating oil in diesel. These additives can substantially change the fuel quality and lead to poor vehicle operation or, in the worst cases, engine damage.

The advantage to the unscrupulous fuel retailer is that they can buy the additive free of excise, as it is not normally a component of fuel, and sell it with excise added, profiting by 38 cents per litre.

If you experience unfamiliar problems with your vehicle, such as hard starting or misfiring, take your vehicle back to the last place you obtained fuel and discuss the problem with the retailer. If you get no satisfaction and the station is branded by a major oil company, contact that company, as all the major companies guarantee the fuel they sell.

If you are still not satisfied, contact the NSW Department of Fair Trading. If you suspect that adulterated fuel is the cause of your problems, you should also contact the Federal Department of Customs, with details of the station at which you purchased the fuel.

You might want to take a sample to your local motoring club or Government Consumer Protection agency.

**aussiblue** · 10-09-2007, 10:47 PM

and http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/HansArt.nsf/448b6decbe0283adca2571e1001663bb/ca256d11000bd3aaca2568e000162d84!OpenDocument

Quote:

Earlier this year specific new allegations were drawn to the attention of my department. As the Commonwealth had previously failed to act and, if true, the allegations meant that the interests of New South Wales motorists were being compromised, I was compelled to act. It was alleged that petrol supplied from a number of Sydney service stations contained high levels of toluene, which is a chemical solvent often found in petrol but in relatively small quantities. It was further alleged that excise-free toluene was being added at the wholesale and retail levels in order to extend the fuel and reduce the overall cost of supply. Toluene did not attract excise at that stage.

My department’s initial investigation involved obtaining petrol samples from service stations in Sydney. After independent testing, six stations were found to have unleaded petrol with toluene levels significantly above what was considered normal. On being advised of these results, I acted swiftly to warn the public about the problem. After months of inaction from the Federal Government, my department advised me that this was the best way to ensure that New South Wales consumers were aware of the problem and how it could be fixed. This decisive action by the New South Wales Government forced the Commonwealth to do its job.

**aussiblue** · 10-09-2007, 10:49 PM

Not good for your Ford either ttp://c-store.net.au/magazine/archive/2000/fuel.html:

Quote:

Service station operators selling adulterated fuel in Sydney have been treated by the popular press as people in the same class as bag snatchers and child molesters - the public doesn't like them. Politicians whose departments are successful in prosecuting those running and profiting from fuel substitution rackets in NSW and other states are likely to see strong public support.

Initially, it would probably be the vehicle operator that would be identified, but if that operator were not aware that they had purchased adulterated fuel the EPA action would flow on to the fuel retailer. Once again, more big fines. If schonk operators are banking on government inaction, as they have in the past, then they should think again.

Engine Damage
Finally there is the question of engine damage to vehicles running on tax-dodging fuel cocktails. Most popular locally built vehicles seem to be fairly tolerant, providing toluene levels aren't too high for too long.

Ford stated that a Falcon run consistently on high toluene content fuel could suffer cylinder head damage which, being uncharacteristic in this engine, would lead service engineers to identify fuel adulteration as a problem.

**aussiblue** · 10-09-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Ford stated that a Falcon run consistently on high toluene content fuel could suffer cylinder head damage which, being uncharacteristic in this engine...

I'm not sure that bit rings true though.

**aussiblue** · 10-09-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Ministry of Fair Trading tests of fuel samples from three metropolitan service stations have come up clean in a random check during December for excessive toluene.

The checks are part of the Ministry's ongoing commitment to monitor the composition of fuel in WA, after eastern states retailers were caught last February adding excessive amounts of the additive toluene to fuel.

In some cases, levels in NSW were as high as 60% with percentages over 30% likely to cause engine damage. There is no mandatory standard for fuel composition, however the industry accepts 20% as a maximum level for toluene. Analysis by the WA Chemistry Centre showed toluene percentages in fuel from the three unnamed WA stations were as follows:

Landsdale 10.0%
Lathlain 6.0%
East Fremantle 6.7%

Tests in March last year yielded similar results, with the highest test result of 15.6% from fuel sold at a Forrestfield station.

http://docep.wa.gov.au/Corporate/Med...s_pass_ra.html

fmc351 · 10-09-2007, 10:51 PM

That will be the thing I was talking about Id say.

**Captain Stubing** · 11-09-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

...

You might want to take a sample to your local motoring club or Government Consumer Protection agency.

Unfortunately, I've used up all the fuel from the mower tin yesterday.

I'll be watching my 'fuel gauge' to see if it keeps on dissolving over the next few months.

Yaw · 13-09-2007, 08:39 AM

My guess too would be ethanol mixed with the heat of being in a shed for a long period of time and the fuel tank making a Humidity Chamber. Fuel actually has a bout a 90 day shelf life and then it detiorates rapidly. Another thought just passed my mind, if you used an E10 fuel, perhaps the fuel or normal petrolium part has evepaorated leaving the ethanol percentage much higher.

davonafairlane · 13-09-2007, 08:49 AM

We have seen that happen to a victa. And it was the ethanol blended fuel that it was running on. United sell it PLUS ULP 95 octane. I wouldnt suggest you use it in the victa. I use it in my cars all the time because its cheaper, haven't had any problem but its disturbing in the victa.