What's the truth about cannons?

XRated · 13-01-2007, 12:20 PM

I'm hoping to get an honest answer before bagging out ricers....

So... What's the deal with cannon exhausts?

I personally despise them because they look hideous and produce a woeful hollow, echoey drone.

There are plenty of nice Japanese cars that can look exceptional but are spoiled by a silly 6" exhaust that hangs 30mm from the ground. I think I've only seen two modded imports that have a very tasteful and expensive looking exhaust setup (S15 200sx).

Do they aid performance? Are they just supposed to make more noise? Are they meant to look good?

I'd also like to know if the exhaust on "Big Joe's" BA TT GT are cannons.

Cheers

**Falcon Coupe** · 13-01-2007, 12:25 PM

Big yep, but not cannons.

I think the issue here is fashion more than function, turbo cars seem to gain more hp thorugh an average size pipe than a V8 does.

JC · 13-01-2007, 12:46 PM

They are cannons in the pic - but looks like only the 4" version.

IIRC, the whole cannon thing started with the Porsch 928, and mazda RX7 series 4 - these cars both have twin pipes, and the last bit of the rear section is an integrated muffler/tailpipe (ie cannon). From there, it's just gone silly, with Honda civics and Hyundais all wearing 6" cannons that do nought. They don't even look good.

If a cannon deepened my exhaust note, I would get one - ie for function, not looks. But at around $500 each, there are better ways to get a deep note on a V8.

MITCHAY · 13-01-2007, 01:05 PM

How funny I was reading a Street Commodores mag just then and two of the cars had cannons and thought how gay. Cannons on muscle look out of place.

My WRX ideally (I will be buying second hand so might have to go twin tips) will be getting one for noise and function although not overly huge. Boxer burble

Although it does sound quite good stock.

More than 4" is pushing it I reckon. If it's well designed it does help performance.

Just adding a cannon onto a stock system won't do anything except for make it sound different.

XFshep · 13-01-2007, 01:06 PM

absolute ricer crap. 1" pipe into 6" tip, see it all the time, its ridiculous.

**GasoLane** · 13-01-2007, 01:09 PM

I think it's like a Exhaust store once advertised

"If your car doesn't go fast, we can make it sound like it does"

5L · 13-01-2007, 01:12 PM

in theory putting a jap box (see 'milo tin') on a standard exhuast would loose power because it is one more muffler that you are adding on, we tried to tell this to a mate with a celica but he got it done anyway, along with a supercheap wing, and greedy, apexi, trust stickers on his doors, his car was a laughing matter at many parties. thankgod he brought that wh stato.

XFshep · 13-01-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUXR8220

in theory putting a jap box (see 'milo tin') on a standard exhuast would loose power because it is one more muffler that you are adding on, we tried to tell this to a mate with a celica but he got it done anyway, along with a supercheap wing, and greedy, apexi, trust stickers on his doors, his car was a laughing matter at many parties. thankgod he brought that wh stato.

mate had some of those stupid stickers down the side of his car too, so one day i replaced them all with 'im a ******* ricer' stickers (i work at a signwriting place). i think he finally got a clue after that hehe.

Bill_R · 13-01-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFshep

absolute ricer crap. 1" pipe into 6" tip, see it all the time, its ridiculous.

Agreed. I think if you fit them for noise you need a life. Illusions of being a boy racer. Note that any increase in noise over what was standard for that vehicle is considered defective and is illegal.

MITCHAY · 13-01-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_R

Agreed. I think if you fit them for noise you need a life. Illusions of being a boy racer. Note that any increase in noise over what was standard for that vehicle is considered defective and is illegal.

Depends if it was at the legal noise level in the first place. As long as your exhaust isn't louder then certain dB for where you live then it's legal, noise wise that is.

Emissions are an entirely different story.

Bill_R · 13-01-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Depends if it was at the legal noise level in the first place. As long as your exhaust isn't louder then certain dB for where you live then it's legal, noise wise that is.

Emissions are an entirely different story.

Not in NSW. The regulations are explicit (read up if you like). There is an absolute dB limit PLUS legislation that the noise cannot be more than what was standard for that car. I don't need to qoute RTA again here - been through it before.

MITCHAY · 13-01-2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_R

Not in NSW. The regulations are explicit (read up if you like). There is an absolute dB limit PLUS legislation that the noise cannot be more than what was standard for that car. I don't need to qoute RTA again here - been through it before.

Really, never knew that.

PHATXR8 · 13-01-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_R

Not in NSW. The regulations are explicit (read up if you like). There is an absolute dB limit PLUS legislation that the noise cannot be more than what was standard for that car. I don't need to qoute RTA again here - been through it before.

It that is the case, then the RTA and Police aren't doing a very good job enforcing that rule! I assume then that the exhaust/muffler shops should be also prosecuted for supply defective parts?

MITCHAY · 13-01-2007, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

It that is the case, then the RTA and Police aren't doing a very good job enforcing that rule! I assume then that the exhaust/muffler shops should be also prosecuted for supply defective parts?

Yeah but then the government wouldn't be able to double dip. Allow the sale of illegal parts and get the tax from the sale and then get the revenue raised from the defect.

eb_5litre · 13-01-2007, 02:45 PM

I wasnt aware it was that strict, thought it was just a definate dB limit..... something like 97dB or so.

Bill_R · 13-01-2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb_5litre

I wasnt aware it was that strict, thought it was just a definate dB limit..... something like 97dB or so.

From: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/no...hiclenoise.htm

"Defective mufflers

Vehicle owners and operators should ensure that their vehicles are not fitted with defective mufflers (referred to as 'noise control equipment' in Clause 18 of the Regulation). Defective noise control equipment is defined as:

* equipment that allows the emission of more noise than the original noise control equipment fitted by the vehicle manufacturer, or
* equipment that has been modified in a way that makes it less effective than it would have been without the modification, or
* equipment that allows gas to escape from a place other than the intended exhaust outlet, or
* if the equipment concerned comprises a system of mufflers – the system contains fewer mufflers – than the original system fitted by the manufacturer.

Listen to the exhaust system when buying a vehicle. If the vehicle sounds noisier than unmodified vehicles of the same make and model, its system may have been altered. If in doubt, make inquiries. The system should be replaced with a quieter system when:

* the exhaust system has been replaced with an excessively loud system such as a sports system, or
* the baffles have been altered or removed from the muffler so the vehicle is noisier."

There is provision there to fine even if the noise is below the dB limit but above what was standard for that vehicle. The only interpretation might be between "muffler" and "noise control equipment".

eb_5litre · 13-01-2007, 03:01 PM

Yeah I just found that the pre-1983 dB limit is 96dB and the post-1983 limit is 90dB.

http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/vi...2000+first+0+N

PHATXR8 · 13-01-2007, 03:06 PM

Well I guess the EPA has a lot of work to do.....good luck to them!!

jabba · 13-01-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

It that is the case, then the RTA and Police aren't doing a very good job enforcing that rule! I assume then that the exhaust/muffler shops should be also prosecuted for supply defective parts?

I would not say that was true about the Police, RTA and the EPA doing much about noise emissions. The exhaust shop up the road refuses to install any Cannon onto any car.. He is in-fact removing at least 1 cannon a week on riced up cars that have been defected by either the Police, RTA or EPA. He has had as many a 20 in one week after a Police Sting on the Gold Coast...

It is also law that if a exhaust shop (or any performance shop) installs an non-EPA approved product to a new car, they are braking the Law and are subjected to penalties..... I know of one tune shop that had there own exhaust system... One of the cars his exhaust was on was tested by the EPA an it came 1DB over the limit.. It cost the shop ten of thousands of dollars to rectify the problem.... Unfortunately the EPA is a part of life now and we have to learn to live with it, and as time goes by the EPA will be enforced more and more..

**GasoLane** · 13-01-2007, 03:13 PM

It's not so much the RTA that is the problem here it's Laminge's friends the EPA... a couple of snippets from their site.

Defective noise control equipment is defined as:
• equipment that allows the emission of more noise than
the original noise control equipment fitted by the vehicle
manufacturer, or
• equipment that has been modified in a way that makes
it less effective than it would have been without the
modification, or
• equipment that allows gas to escape from a place other
than the intended exhaust outlet, or
• if the equipment concerned comprises a system of
mufflers - the system contains fewer mufflers - than the
original system fitted by the manufacturer.

AND...If Mr Plod wanted to be really strict they could fine most of the 'doof-doof' crowd.

Clauses 17 and 17A of the Regulation contain penalties for
offensive noise produced by vehicle sound systems (see
definition of "offensive noise" under "Noise from off-road
vehicles"). As a guide, if the sound can be clearly heard
outside the vehicle and contains low frequency noise, it is
likely to be offensive.
Under clause 17, a person who causes a motor vehicle
sound system to emit offensive noise can be issued a $150
penalty notice by the council, an authorised DEC officer or
Police. In addition, they can get 2 demerit points on their
driver's licence.

There is more there about pod filters and just about anything else the PC correct fun police can think of.

:

Whoops, too slow... Bill_R beat me to it

The Monty · 13-01-2007, 04:45 PM

The truth is, they are noisy and look bad. In my opinion anyway.

needaXYGT · 13-01-2007, 06:25 PM

when i see them installed on an angle they remind me of a tuned pipe on a Go-Kart lol.

MITCHAY · 13-01-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by needaXYGT

when i see them installed on an angle they remind me of a tuned pipe on a Go-Kart lol.

I reckon they look better when they are angled out rather than straight.

JC · 14-01-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I reckon they look better when they are angled out rather than straight.

With what you drive, you would! LOL.

MITCHAY · 14-01-2007, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

With what you drive, you would! LOL.

Yeah but I love my rice!

: At least it is not out of place on my car :P

blackers10 · 14-01-2007, 02:55 AM

alot of muscle cars i see around the place have twin cannons on the rear painted matt black..
a few have a droopy type tip from the cannon styled muffler..

im glad people havnt started painting their cannons!!
driving along smelling the terrible smell of cooking paint *puke*

i think cannons look nice on some cars... CRAP on others..
on a turbo car i think they are definatly a performance piece. as the pipe is usually 3" or so and has only a cat and the cannon with no other muffler in place.

but on an excel its just silly

charles_wif_xf · 14-01-2007, 11:31 AM

They are SHIIT. PERIOD!

Barry_v · 14-01-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I reckon they look better when they are angled out rather than straight.

meet my friend Dr. Rice. this is what she is pointing at:

she is laughing inside.

Rev28K · 14-01-2007, 02:13 PM

A friend picked up a second or two around Phillip Island after swapping his "name brand" full jap exhaust back to the factory stock exhaust. Didn't sound or look as tough but it went quicker on the track which is all that matters.

T_Terror · 14-01-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry_v

meet my friend Dr. Rice. this is what she is pointing at:

she is laughing inside.

I dont see it?

How is it rice?

Its a turbo car, fair chance he'd have exhaust, cooler and boost upgrades and rip most other street cars.

IM not sure what sort of mufflers people here think SHOULD be on turbo cars?