Orion brought forward (slightly)

Road_Warrior · 21-03-2007, 03:04 PM

Thought you geezers would have pounced on this by now. From the current (today's) issue of John Mellor's e-news:

http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews.n...toNews_377.pdf

I'm not going to copy and paste it here because it all turns out fked up, but apparently they are going to bring forward the release date "a few weeks" to shorten the BFII's lifespan, as well as a drip-feed campaign like the BA.

The article also quotes Tom Gorman, saying:

Quote:

“We know that our next-generation Falcon is going to leap substantially where they (Holden with its VE Commodore) are, so we’re not worried about that at all.”

Interesting times we live in, especially for a car enthusiast

FPV8U · 21-03-2007, 03:20 PM

Well im thinking about holding off on mods to my BA, but im still not quite convinced yet...

**Professor Farnsworth** · 21-03-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Well i have decided to hold off on mods for mine, hope it's worth it.

where you get your money from mate, is beyond me :P

Dr Smith · 21-03-2007, 03:21 PM

A sure bet that all will be released before Melbourne Motor Show time (3/2008) which I must say is far more logical as previous releases near Sept (or before SMS) meant your new model release came too close to the end of the year and meant dealers started discounting "old" stock in the following new year whereas this way you have 9 months of full sales in the same year.

Lukeyson · 21-03-2007, 03:35 PM

very interesting, i am in limbo, i dont know whether i get a BFII with the BOSS , as i love them, or just wait and get the orion, but i am always skeptical about buying series 1. lol

FPV8U · 21-03-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrcrackers

where you get your money from mate, is beyond me :P

Says the guys who has had like 5 cars in the last 12 months all of which are far from standard

:

Seriously mate, just hard savings, very hard, and give myself a tight budget, Wouldn't be buying this one untill im off my P's though.

FlipXW · 21-03-2007, 03:55 PM

power upgrades sound a bit weak

5.0failane · 21-03-2007, 04:08 PM

I must be the olny person who cant open the link

banarcus · 21-03-2007, 04:26 PM

I said this a while back. I dont believe that Ford want another repeat of the EL - AU crossover.

ORION

**Polyal** · 21-03-2007, 04:30 PM

I wouldn't believe that. If anything major changes dont make there deadlines. Whether its +/- a month or so is not going to make much of a difference; the last thing you want to do is rush it.

As for power upgrades, are you for real? 200kw's in a family taxi is plenty. What the focus should be on is using that kw's better, which I am sure is what they are doing.

LPG should stay for sure, but it definately needs improvement, they should have direct injection by then. Also a diesel would make sense if they want to export in the region, and it would be good for the Terry aswell.

**Fordman1** · 21-03-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philxy351

power upgrades sound a bit weak

200 kw is more than enough for a taxi / fleet car.

What Ford needs to work on in Orion is safety features, craftsmanship in the interior, and fit & finish.

If the perceived quality of the car is there, the price is right, and the features are attractive, it will sell.

The fuel economy also needs to be an improvement over BF2 !!

**Polyal** · 21-03-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

The fuel economy also needs to be an improvement over BF2 !!

Mind you for a large car its not that bad, with BF came some good improvements.

What are other cars in its class averaging? I doubt it would be much better than the falcon. (BTW, I call 1L/100kms alot, not 0.1).

Cobra · 21-03-2007, 04:42 PM

I don't want them to rush it and have the same quality control issues they've had with BAs when they were first released.

I would like to hear that the BOSS 290 comes standard in the XR8 and the FPV V8s get a ford motorsport parts catalogue raid with a 320kw BOSS. Carillo rods as per the cobra R, rev limit raised, slightly more agressive cams ect. Very easily acheivable, and not much more expensive!

FlipXW · 21-03-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

200 kw is more than enough for a taxi / fleet car.

What Ford needs to work on in Orion is safety features, craftsmanship in the interior, and fit & finish.

If the perceived quality of the car is there, the price is right, and the features are attractive, it will sell.

The fuel economy also needs to be an improvement over BF2 !!

yea true.
i will retract my previous statement what i meant to say was for the power in the v8's to be more usable at low revs, to give it more go off the line so it will beat a ss commy

**Fordman1** · 21-03-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Mind you for a large car its not that bad, with BF came some good improvements.

What are other cars in its class averaging? I doubt it would be much better than the falcon. (BTW, I call 1L/100kms alot, not 0.1).

I understand what you are saying mate however:

The market has shifted and the segment the Falcon is in is half the volume of what it was 3 years ago.

Ford need to give the market a reason (especially fleets) why they need to go back to Falcon (instead of Corolla & Camry). Remember 80 % of Falcon sales are Fleet sales & Corolla has really grown in this area.

The Falcon will never drink the same as small car, but if Orion is significantly better than VE and similair to Camry, then Ford will have some great marketing ammunition !

**Polyal** · 21-03-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I understand what you are saying mate however:

The market has shifted and the segment the Falcon is in is half the volume of what it was 3 years ago.

Ford need to give the market a reason (especially fleets) why they need to go back to Falcon (instead of Corolla & Camry). Remember 80 % of Falcon sales are Fleet sales & Corolla has really grown in this area.

The Falcon will never drink the same as small car, but if Orion is significantly better than VE and similair to Camry, then Ford will have some great marketing ammunition !

Yeap I agree, but Im not expecting miracles, you can only do so much refining if its going to weigh "x" kg's.

The falcons market share plunge IMO has nothing to do with its fuel economy. (as an entire class maybe, but not the falcon on its own). Its an aging car with no marketing to back it up, its up against two brand new competitors aswell. Model cycles suck..LOL

And thats the first I have heard corollas being brought for fleet work.

**Fordman1** · 21-03-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeap I agree, but Im not expecting miracles, you can only do so much refining if its going to weigh "x" kg's.

The falcons market share plunge IMO has nothing to do with its fuel economy. (as an entire class maybe, but not the falcon on its own). Its an aging car with no marketing to back it up, its up against two brand new competitors aswell. Model cycles suck..LOL

And thats the first I have heard corollas being brought for fleet work.

Fuel economy for large cars in this day and age would be a good marketing tool (that's all).

We know that in the overall ownership experience that depreciation is the biggest cost (NOT fuel costs - which is peanuts in the big picture).

The public doesn't understand this - but they do listen to environmental issues and understand what 'waste' is don't they ?

Class leading fuel economy is a good selling point. But quality and brand image is MORE important - Ford have poor brand image right now. Hopefully Orion, Mondeo, and other new products will change the public's opinion about Ford.

Quite a few fleets are now buying Corolla because:

1. Overall running costs are a lot lower (inc resale).

2. They are seen as a 'responsible' choice in an environment that is anti 'waste' and anti 'excess'.

3. The Toyota spin doctors are masters at what they do well - selling cars.

I hope Orion get the fleet buyers back big time, as well as the private buyer.

jonk · 21-03-2007, 06:27 PM

Four cylinder cars driven even mildly hard aren't that special fuel economy wise, especially compared to the sheetmetal advantage of a large falcon. To me, if your using ten litre's per hundred in a modern four cylinder, and I can get twelve out of my old '99 Fairlane in the city - what's the small car segment really got going for it ???

GK · 21-03-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Thought you geezers would have pounced on this by now. From the current (today's) issue of John Mellor's e-news:

http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews.n...toNews_377.pdf

I'm not going to copy and paste it here because it all turns out fked up, but apparently they are going to bring forward the release date "a few weeks" to shorten the BFII's lifespan, as well as a drip-feed campaign like the BA.

The article also quotes Tom Gorman, saying:

Interesting times we live in, especially for a car enthusiast

Thanks for the link Road Warrior, I enjoyed the read!

Cheers,

GK

Cruise · 21-03-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

The fuel economy also needs to be an improvement over BF2 !!

This be the key to the future of ford.

But this whole story really doesnt say much it says the 200kw and 270kw firgues are not a certainty so dont look into it to much. Hell, no one has even actually found the territory front suspension in orion to be factual information.

XR8-260 · 21-03-2007, 08:44 PM

200kw for the base 4.0L is pretty good news. Did they say that ZF 6spd is standard across the range? I hope the car doesn't put on any weight though...

jarridtheruler · 21-03-2007, 10:44 PM

What worries me is that the new falcon will be heavier. In recent times, they have been getting heavier with each new model, which has typically meant higher fuel consumption. Although i hope this isnt the case, they cant really aford the falcon to get much heavier

Dave_au · 21-03-2007, 10:48 PM

It could be a marketing tool by Tom and friends - it sounds like a pretty slow news day when a story breaks that the Falcon will be 4 weeks early if everything goes to plan.

Didn't the Typhoon effectively end up being 2 months late after they identified their clutch problem after intial public launch?

DTFRMONT · 21-03-2007, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

And thats the first I have heard corollas being brought for fleet work.

I work for one of the major Federal govt. departments, our fleet includes BF2 Futuras, Camrys(Current 4 cyl model) & Corollas. We also have 1 or 2 Prius's thrown in to make the office look like they're caring for the enviroment. Before the Corollas, Lease Plan gave us Focuses to drive around in.

StookEB · 22-03-2007, 12:48 AM

What gearbox would be used??
The contract with BTR ends soon, and they are only allowed a limited number of ZF boxes. I stand to be corrected though.

ED Classic · 22-03-2007, 01:26 AM

Will be dissapointing if XR8 only goes to 270kw if theres no work on torque to compete with 6 litre Holdens.

hydra_hlz · 22-03-2007, 03:59 PM

The XR8 is supposed to get the current BOSS 290 which should help the haul the big thing around.

XR8-260 · 22-03-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydra_hlz

The XR8 is supposed to get the current BOSS 290 which should help the haul the big thing around.

Will that mean that the new XR6T will get the current Typhoon engine?

T3ts50 · 22-03-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3

Will that mean that the new XR6T will get the current Typhoon engine?

Hopefully without the twin plate clutch

Redrum · 22-03-2007, 04:04 PM

XR6T is supposed to be 270kw and the new Phoon 300kw.

I do hope the wait is not too much longer. When you start seeing pre production builds getting around just remember they will be a mixture of models. Due to limitations on pre production builds, 80 instead of the usual 200, some cars will have interiors of one model, whilst it has the power train of another.

I am confident Ford will get the Orion right. FoMoCo cannot afford another eyesore like the AU.